Where Does Faith Come From?

[Revmitchell]

That accusation is false as evidenced by his claim that the power of the Spirit is evident in the gospel message and the indwelt believer delieveringvthat message.

And that has been the problem with some Augustinians on this board. When you do not believe the HS acts in the exact way they do then they accuse of not believing at all. It is evil and it is dishonest.

 

[Iconoclast]

The straw-man here is that if you do not agree with a few here you will be falsely accused of denying the supernatural work of God in salvation.

For example



This member attributes the gospel message and the Spirit indwelt messagenger to God (this is supernatural). But since the member disagrees with a few here they will slander the man for believing the gospel is tge power of God unto salvation.

I may not agree with the quoted member, but tgat would be no reason to deal with him dishonestly.

There was no strawman anywhere.
Rm described man as always able to believe just as he is.
There was no mention of the Holy Spirit at all.
No mention of a new heart, no mention of being born from above.
Those are supernatural works Jon C, works of God not mentioned at all as being necessary.
Read it for yourself. If RM. Can respond and clarify his statements that would be helpful.
No false accusation was made anywhere. It only existed in your imagination.
RM can clarify in his own words.
No need for you to interject what you think he might have said.
Or how he might have been offended at possibly taking a post in the wrong way.
No one is trying to catch him in his words.
He can clarify what he posted so there will be no doubt.

 

[JonC]

There was no strawman anywhere.
Rm described man as always able to believe just as he is.
There was no mention of the Holy Spirit at all.
No mention of a new heart, no mention of being born from above.
Those are supernatural works Jon C, works of God not mentioned at all as being necessary.
Read it for yourself. If RM. Can respond and clarify his statements that would be helpful.
No false accusation was made anywhere. It only existed in your imagination.
RM can clarify in his own words.
No need for you to interject what you think he might have said.
Or how he might have been offended at possibly taking a post in the wrong way.
No one is trying to catch him in his words.
He can clarify what he posted so there will be no doubt.

@Revmitchell has responded. You have not been listening.

No one has to respond to you to your satisfaction in order to be spared being insulted and slandered on this forum.

 

[Iconoclast]

JonC
I also disagree with his theology.

BUT the accusation made was that "[h]e is denying the supernatural work of the Spirit is necessary in the gospel presentation".

That accusation is false ...



You do not know what posts we are talking about. So you cannot know if they are true or false can you. The original post was not about Skandelon. It was about statements from this thread.

 

[Van]

So he called you an idiot.

Here is what he posted: "it is an opportunity for you to prove that you are not an idiot that cannot read what people post or research it for yourself. "

The use of "against the man" arguments are logical fallacies, demonstrating a lack of validity to the positions so supported.

 

[Revmitchell]

Here is what he posted: "it is an opportunity for you to prove that you are not an idiot that cannot read what people post or research it for yourself. "

The use of "against the man" arguments are logical fallacies, demonstrating a lack of validity to the positions so supported.

The implication is that it is already believed you are an idiot.

 

[Iconoclast]

@Revmitchell has responded. You have not been listening.

No one has to respond to you to your satisfaction in order to be spared being insulted and slandered on this forum.

Where did he respond to post 143?
Let him speak for himself.He can do it.
The only slander is from you against Calvinists.
I want him to respond....if that is okay with you.
It does not have to be to my satisfaction, just a clarifying response will do.
No insult was made to anyone. Just an accurate summary was made to a different poster.
You are trying to twist this into something else.
You are not directly involved in this discussion.
I am asking RM. To clarify for us his view.

 

[JonC]

JonC
I also disagree with his theology.

BUT the accusation made was that "[h]e is denying the supernatural work of the Spirit is necessary in the gospel presentation".

That accusation is false ...



You do not know what posts we are talking about. So you cannot know if they are true or false can you. The original post was not about Skandelon. It was about statements from this thread.

"Well, I gave you those quotes from Dr. Flowers where he stated the gospel all by itself is sufficient. He is denying the supernatural work of the Spirit is necessary in the gospel presentation. "

The claim has been made that Dr. Flowers is Skandelon. Skandelon has affirmed the supernatiral work of the Spirit both in the gospel and its presentation.

So are you saying the comment was about @Revmitchell and he denies the supernatural work of the Spirit when he has also denied the accusation????

And you think that is somehow acceptable?

 

[Van]

The implication is that it is already believed you are an idiot.

Some bullies like to manipulate others by intimidation, do what I want or people will think poorly of you.

 

[Iconoclast]

"Well, I gave you those quotes from Dr. Flowers where he stated the gospel all by itself is sufficient. He is denying the supernatural work of the Spirit is necessary in the gospel presentation. "

The claim has been made that Dr. Flowers is Skandelon. Skandelon has affirmed the supernatiral work of the Spirit both in the gospel and its presentation.

So are you saying the comment was about @Revmitchell and he denies the supernatural work of the Spirit when he has also denied the accusation????

And you think that is somehow acceptable?

My comments were about RM, not Skandelon.
You are changing it once again.
Later SG and I were talking about past posts by Skandelon.
I am asking RM...to answer post 143.

How about it RM,?

 

[JonC]

Where did he respond to post 143?
Let him speak for himself.He can do it.
The only slander is from you against Calvinists.
I want him to respond....if that is okay with you.
It does not have to be to my satisfaction, just a clarifying response will do.
No insult was made to anyone. Just an accurate summary was made to a different poster.
You are trying to twist this into something else.
You are not directly involved in this discussion.
I am asking RM. To clarify for us his view.

This is an online forum. Anyone can chime in.

I have never skandered Calvinists (I am a Calvinist, although like James White I am often ashamed of the company we keep by association).

 

[Revmitchell]

Some bullies like to manipulate others by intimidation, do what I want or people will think poorly of you.

Which is going on right this minute.

 

[Reformed1689]

Your claim Greek grammar requires "through faith" to be part of the gift is false.
No one has shown that faith is a gift of God based on grammar of Ephesians 2:8-9.
Copy and pasting a verse in Greek is a stunt, not calculated to enlighten.
All the other Greek grammarians are not mistaken, but you may be.
I have no need to prove I am not "an idiot."
I have no need to prove I read posts.
His faith, your faith mentioned many times, his God given faith never mentioned.
Ephesians 2:8-9 does not say nor suggest faith is the gift or is part of the gift. The claim is simply reading what is not there into the text. Twaddle

Whose faith did God credit as righteousness in Romans 4:4-5? "Abraham's faith, his faith."

Look he said "Taint So"....

 

[Reformed1689]

Which is going on right this minute.

You and @Van are way oversensitive and insecure. Too insecure to answer simple questions because you know your logic will be torn to shreds.

 

[JonC]

So basically if @Revmitchell affirms no one is saved apart from the work of the Spirit Iconoclast owes him an apology he'll never make.

 

[Iconoclast]

This is an online forum. Anyone can chime in.

I have never skandered Calvinists (I am a Calvinist, although like James White I am often ashamed of the company we keep by association).

Oh yeah, you and Dr.White are two peas in a pod.
.
Let RM answer please,thanks

 

[Van]

Look he said "Taint So"....

And here is what I said:

Your claim Greek grammar requires "through faith" to be part of the gift is false.
No one has shown that faith is a gift of God based on grammar of Ephesians 2:8-9.
Copy and pasting a verse in Greek is a stunt, not calculated to enlighten.
All the other Greek grammarians are not mistaken, but you may be.
I have no need to prove I am not "an idiot."
I have no need to prove I read posts.
His faith, your faith mentioned many times, his God given faith never mentioned.
Ephesians 2:8-9 does not say nor suggest faith is the gift or is part of the gift. The claim is simply reading what is not there into the text. Twaddle

Whose faith did God credit as righteousness in Romans 4:4-5? "Abraham's faith, his faith."

 

[Iconoclast]

So basically if @Revmitchell affirms no one is saved apart from the work of the Spirit Iconoclast owes him an apology he'll never make.

No JonC...I am asking you to butt out and asking Mitchell to clarify his post. D o you think you can do that?
I want him to clarify what he posted.Not affirm what you want him to say. He has posted over 40000 times.

He can do it all by himself JonC.

 

[Van]

You and @Van are way oversensitive and insecure. Too insecure to answer simple questions because you know your logic will be torn to shreds.

Note the topic folks, not that faith comes from hearing God's word, but a deflection toward false accusations. This is all they have folks - against the man fallacies, change the subject efforts, and misrepresentations.

 

[Revmitchell]

Revmitchell,



Are you speaking of Adam, or sinners after the fall?

All of us.

So the natural man, has no need of a supernatural salvation by God giving him a new heart?
As a sinner he has full ability?

I never said that nor did I imply that. It certainly is not what I believe. I think you read that into my words because of your own failed Augustinian doctrine. Scripture is clear God gives us a new heart. It does not come before we believe. We are not first regenerated.

The fall did not affect mankind at all, they have full natural ability to welcome spiritual truth?

My posts in this thread have already answered this go back and read it yourself.

You seem to be speaking of a "human trust". You go on the plane because you have faith that the airline hired a trained pilot who can take off and land.

You guys spend way to much time discounting what we have Naturally (that which we have without and extra supernatural act of God) You make it out to be completely devoid of God. We are made in His image and it is corrupted but not completely devoid less we are no longer made in His image.

So again..man can do it by himself!. I see no mention of any supernatural work of God taking place. Do you deny that The Spirit alone gives a new heart? You do not mention the Holy Spirit at all, just man

I have already answered that.

could you define or explain, "the Power of truth"?

Not sure why this needs to be explained. Hebrews 4:12, Romans 1:16, James 1:18

what happens? Does the Holy Spirit watch as a spectator?

Answered