Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Where is the term Trinity found in Scripture?
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Where Does Faith Come From?
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atpollard
Well-Known Member
“Saving” is an adjective to distinguish one type of “faith” from another. As in ...
Saving Faith
[Luke 7:50 NASB] And He said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."
Dead Faith
[James 2:14, 17, 26 NASB] 14 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? ... 17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, [being] by itself. ... 26 For just as the body without [the] spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.
Hopefully someone said....
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. - Romans 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. - Romans 10:17
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:- Matthew 28:19
David,
While I agree with you that faith is a gift of God, we have to be very careful.
The passage does not say that faith itself is the gift of God, so the accusation against @Van for denying scripture is not warranted. I agree that faith is a part of this gift, but the gift itself is Salvation (reference the entire passage).
The argument should be whether or not faith is a part of this grace (this gift of salvation).
Again, I agree with you that it is - but I also think that you have gone a bit too far with the implication that Van is denying Scripture (based on the actual passage and grammar).
Saying someone is denying scripture because they disagree with you is childish.
Reverend, To whom are you referring?
Anyone who does it. Ixnay on the everandray
I agree. Too often people accuse other members of denying Scripture because of a different interpretation. This is an issue here, and it will be addressed when I see it because it is a false accusation. I encourage members to report when these things happen.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Notice the term Trinity is not in the verse.
I didn't accuse him. I asked a question. There is a difference.
I didn't say he denied Scripture. I asked a question.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
We should also be careful about falsely accusing someone of something they did not actually do....just saying...
[QUOTE="davidtaylorjr, post: 2511140, member: 14683"
I didn't say he denied Scripture. I asked a question.[/QUOTE]
I never said you did. However, since you bring you up, your question is equally as bad. Its a debate tactic. Its insincere, its childish, its unnecessary for a reasonable discussion.
I didn't say he denied Scripture. I asked a question.[/QUOTE]
I never said you did. However, since you bring you up, your question is equally as bad. Its a debate tactic. Its insincere, its childish, its unnecessary for a reasonable discussion.
That is true as well. False accusations are always wrong. Scripture refers to this as bearing false witness and a sin. People need to be very careful with their accusations.
That is not close enough for you?
I don't pray in the name of the trinity anyway. I pray the Father in name of Jesus like the old Baptist taught me to.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
No because the argument was that the term "saving faith" is not found in Scripture. Neither is the term "Trinity"
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.”[Romans 1:16-17]
Here Paul makes a deep declarative statement. For in the gospel is the righteousness of God is revealed. This righteousness is not revealed by any other means. It is not reveled by natural revelation, it is not revealed by worshiping an idol, but is solely revealed via the gospel. It is revealed from faith to faith, not faith to unbelief, not faith to unbelief, but faith to faith. This shows that fallen man has not faith. If they did, they would be justified, per Romans 5:1, and be made righteous before God via the imputed righteousness of the Christ.
Here Paul makes a deep declarative statement. For in the gospel is the righteousness of God is revealed. This righteousness is not revealed by any other means. It is not reveled by natural revelation, it is not revealed by worshiping an idol, but is solely revealed via the gospel. It is revealed from faith to faith, not faith to unbelief, not faith to unbelief, but faith to faith. This shows that fallen man has not faith. If they did, they would be justified, per Romans 5:1, and be made righteous before God via the imputed righteousness of the Christ.
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God. And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance; and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope; and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.[Romans 5:1-5]
Have you noticed how Paul also mentions tribulations(persecutions) in this passage? The very moment someone is saved, they are placed into a battle. However, this battle is not with weapons such as guns, knives, grenades, weapons of mass destruction, &c., but For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh, for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses.[2 Corinthians 10:3-4] And also For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.[Ephesians 6:12] We have been given Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm. Stand firm therefore, HAVING GIRDED YOUR LOINS WITH TRUTH, and HAVING PUT ON THE BREASTPLATE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, and having shod YOUR FEET WITH THE PREPARATION OF THE GOSPEL OF PEACE; in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.[Ephesians 6:13-17] We have been equipped with armor from head-to-toe to fight against Satan. That is why many see tribulations/persecutions. We fighting against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. Granted, a lot of us have not been persecuted for our faith as many others have down through the annals of time. But the direction USA is headed, it will be here soon enough.
The reason why I brought up persecutions is this For to you it has been granted for Christ’s sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake. When we are saved, we have been granted(gifted) faith, and not only that, but persecutions, to suffer for His sake. One(faith) is just as much a gift of God as the other(persecutions) is.
When we are saved, we are placed into a war. In war, many survive, yet many die. All of us die, but some die from things such as cancer, heart attack, stroke, organ failure, while others die by being killed on the mission field, suffering for the name of the Christ, which is also a gift of God.
Have you noticed how Paul also mentions tribulations(persecutions) in this passage? The very moment someone is saved, they are placed into a battle. However, this battle is not with weapons such as guns, knives, grenades, weapons of mass destruction, &c., but For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh, for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses.[2 Corinthians 10:3-4] And also For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.[Ephesians 6:12] We have been given Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm. Stand firm therefore, HAVING GIRDED YOUR LOINS WITH TRUTH, and HAVING PUT ON THE BREASTPLATE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, and having shod YOUR FEET WITH THE PREPARATION OF THE GOSPEL OF PEACE; in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.[Ephesians 6:13-17] We have been equipped with armor from head-to-toe to fight against Satan. That is why many see tribulations/persecutions. We fighting against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. Granted, a lot of us have not been persecuted for our faith as many others have down through the annals of time. But the direction USA is headed, it will be here soon enough.
The reason why I brought up persecutions is this For to you it has been granted for Christ’s sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake. When we are saved, we have been granted(gifted) faith, and not only that, but persecutions, to suffer for His sake. One(faith) is just as much a gift of God as the other(persecutions) is.
When we are saved, we are placed into a war. In war, many survive, yet many die. All of us die, but some die from things such as cancer, heart attack, stroke, organ failure, while others die by being killed on the mission field, suffering for the name of the Christ, which is also a gift of God.
The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU.”[Galatians 3:8]
Paul tells the Galatians that it is God who justifies the Gentiles(nations) by faith. This faith is not conjured up by man, and then God sees them having this conjured up faith, and then justifying them by it. Every whit of salvation, from foreknowledge(election/choosing)-------->glorification is by God.
Earlier Paul asked This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?[Galatians 3:2] And also So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?[Galatiams 3:5] This faith comes from So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.[Romans 10:17] Even our faith comes from God.
God does not need, or want, our help. He knows what He is doing.
Paul tells the Galatians that it is God who justifies the Gentiles(nations) by faith. This faith is not conjured up by man, and then God sees them having this conjured up faith, and then justifying them by it. Every whit of salvation, from foreknowledge(election/choosing)-------->glorification is by God.
Earlier Paul asked This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?[Galatians 3:2] And also So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?[Galatiams 3:5] This faith comes from So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.[Romans 10:17] Even our faith comes from God.
God does not need, or want, our help. He knows what He is doing.
Gup20
Active Member
It's not absurd... it's just devastating to your interpretation. It is the most accurate reading though.
[Jhn 6:64-65 NASB] 64 "But there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. 65 And He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father."
For what reason? Because some did not believe and Jesus knew from the beginning who did not believe. For that reason, Jesus said that no one can come unless it has been granted.
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