Where Does Faith Come From?

[Gup20]

[Eph 2:8 NASB] 8 For by grace [feminine] you have been saved [masculine] through faith [feminine]; and that [neuter] not of yourselves, [it is] the gift [neuter] of God;
“Grace” is a [feminine noun] and “gift” and “that” are [neuter], so grace alone cannot be the gift according to the rules of Greek grammar.

According to your own analysis here, "you have been saved" is the gift. So your own analysis excludes the possibility of the interpretation that faith is the subject or "gift."

Rom 5:17
For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

Rom 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.​

I agree with salvation being the gift and both grace and faith being supporting terms to that gift. What is clear is that faith is not the gift.

 

[Gup20]

The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU.”[Galatians 3:8]

Paul tells the Galatians that it is God who justifies the Gentiles(nations) by faith. This faith is not conjured up by man, and then God sees them having this conjured up faith, and then justifying them by it. Every whit of salvation, from foreknowledge(election/choosing)-------->glorification is by God.

Earlier Paul asked This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?[Galatians 3:2] And also So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?[Galatiams 3:5] This faith comes from So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.[Romans 10:17] Even our faith comes from God.

God does not need, or want, our help. He knows what He is doing.

How could you miss that Gal 3:8 says "god preached the gospel" to Abraham.

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. The gospel is the power of salvation.

Rom 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Rom 10:17
So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.​

God preached the gospel to Abraham... when Abraham believed the gospel (his choice), he was made righteous. Faith is not a magical or mystical power. It has no influence on God. It does have a human influence in that when we have the same faith in the gospel that Abraham had, we experience human adoption, and then we are considered the descendants of Abraham.

This is paramount because God promised Abraham that his descendants would inherit the righteousness he was given. So the gift of righteousness (salvation) comes to us as an inheritance from our father Abraham. This isn't mystical or magical faith. This is mere belief... the same mere belief Abraham had.

God chose the group "Abraham's descendants" and then gave us all a way to join that group by choice. The "elect" are Abraham's descendants. The "chosen people" are Abraham's descendants.

[Gal 3:6-9, 26, 29 NASB] 6 Even so Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. 7 Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. 8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, [saying,] "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU." 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer. ... 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. ... 29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.​

 

[atpollard]

[Jhn 6:64-65 NASB] 64 "But there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. 65 And He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father."

For what reason? Because some did not believe and Jesus knew from the beginning who did not believe. For that reason, Jesus said that no one can come unless it has been granted.

If I can point the flashlight at another part of the passage and ask an honest question ... what (in YOUR opinion) is "it" that has been granted "from the Father"?

[My answer would obviously be FAITH, the ability to believe. Your answer would likely be different.]

 

[atpollard]

According to your own analysis here, "you have been saved" is the gift. So your own analysis excludes the possibility of the interpretation that faith is the subject or "gift."

Rom 5:17
For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

Rom 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.​

I agree with salvation being the gift and both grace and faith being supporting terms to that gift. What is clear is that faith is not the gift.

"Saved" is masculine so if "saved was the only "gift" then "that" should also have been masculine.
No one part fits the grammar as the "gift"; the "gift" is the whole thing "by grace [feminine] you have been saved [masculine] through faith [feminine]" ... the neuter "that" contains both the masculine and feminine nouns of the entire phrase.

So "grace" is the gift and "saved" is the gift and "faith" is the gift ... all three together are the gift of God in that sentence (Not JUST saved).

 

[SovereignGrace]

How could you miss that Gal 3:8 says "god preached the gospel" to Abraham.

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. The gospel is the power of salvation.

Rom 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Rom 10:17
So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.​

God preached the gospel to Abraham... when Abraham believed the gospel (his choice), he was made righteous. Faith is not a magical or mystical power. It has no influence on God. It does have a human influence in that when we have the same faith in the gospel that Abraham had, we experience human adoption, and then we are considered the descendants of Abraham.

This is paramount because God promised Abraham that his descendants would inherit the righteousness he was given. So the gift of righteousness (salvation) comes to us as an inheritance from our father Abraham. This isn't mystical or magical faith. This is mere belief... the same mere belief Abraham had.

God chose the group "Abraham's descendants" and then gave us all a way to join that group by choice. The "elect" are Abraham's descendants. The "chosen people" are Abraham's descendants.

[Gal 3:6-9, 26, 29 NASB] 6 Even so Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. 7 Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. 8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, [saying,] "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU." 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer. ... 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. ... 29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.​

Faith is not a choice. Faith is a fruit of the Spirit, my friend.[Galatians 5:22] Yes, Abraham believed God. That belief came through the gospel. Not denying that. But by it(faith) coming through hearing the gospel shows faith is external, not internal.

 

[Reformed1689]

It's not absurd... it's just devastating to your interpretation. It is the most accurate reading though.

[Jhn 6:64-65 NASB] 64 "But there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. 65 And He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father."

For what reason? Because some did not believe and Jesus knew from the beginning who did not believe. For that reason, Jesus said that no one can come unless it has been granted.

Again, you haven't devastated anything. You clearly do not understand the passage. Why is he telling them that nobody can come unless it has been granted? Because there are some who do not believe. There are some who do not believe. WHY DO THEY NOT BELIEVE? It has not been granted to them to come to Him by the Father.

 

[SovereignGrace]

If I can point the flashlight at another part of the passage and ask an honest question ... what (in YOUR opinion) is "it" that has been granted "from the Father"?

[My answer would obviously be FAITH, the ability to believe. Your answer would likely be different.]

Faith is a supernatural gift, a gift that justifies us, and ppl say it’s not from God, but from them. Let that sink in.

 

[atpollard]

Faith is not a choice. Faith is a fruit of the Spirit, my friend.[Galatians 5:22] Yes, Abraham believed God. That belief came through the gospel. Not denying that. But by it(faith) coming through hearing the gospel shows faith is external, not internal.

That creates quite an interesting paradox, does it not?

We are saved "by grace through faith" as a gift from God (Ephesians 2:8) ... and once saved, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14) ... who then gives us the fruit of the Spirit: FAITH (Galatians 5:22).

I love it!

 

[SovereignGrace]

It's not absurd... it's just devastating to your interpretation. It is the most accurate reading though.

[Jhn 6:64-65 NASB] 64 "But there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. 65 And He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father."

For what reason? Because some did not believe and Jesus knew from the beginning who did not believe. For that reason, Jesus said that no one can come unless it has been granted.

Always approaching it from man’s perspective. The reason why the Christ knew those who would not believe was because He knew those that had been predestined. That irks you, doesn’t it? Admit it. That really irks you.

Those who were foreknew, He predestined. Those He predestined, He called. Those He called, He justified. Notice it was He who justified, and it wasn’t us and our innate faith that did it. Those He justified, He also glorified.

Every whit of this was from God. Every single solitary inch of it is His doing. But that irks you, right?

 

[SovereignGrace]

That creates quite an interesting paradox, does it not?

We are saved "by grace through faith" as a gift from God (Ephesians 2:8) ... and once saved, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14) ... who then gives us the fruit of the Spirit: FAITH (Galatians 5:22).

I love it!

To me, it’s not a paradox at all. When I see my salvation, sanctification and glorification are all from Him, there’s no paradox at all.

The dissenting view? Well....

 

[loDebar]

Faith is not a choice. Faith is a fruit of the Spirit, my friend.[Galatians 5:22] Yes, Abraham believed God. That belief came through the gospel. Not denying that. But by it(faith) coming through hearing the gospel shows faith is external, not internal.

the ability to exercise faith is a choice, having faith to exercise is gift, as all good things are gifts

Mat 13:57

And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.
Mat 13:58

And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

He could have done good works, They did not believe

 

[SovereignGrace]

the ability to exercise faith is a choice, having faith to exercise is gift, as all good things are gifts

Mat 13:57

And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.
Mat 13:58

And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

He could have done good works, They did not believe

And yet the Christ said elsewhere But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.[John 10:26] His sheep not only hear His voice, they also follow their Shepherd, as He calls them by name.[John 10:3]

 

[Van]

Perhaps you could demonstrate how the grammar supports that conclusion:

[Eph 2:8-9] τῇ γὰρ χάριτί ἐστε σεσῳσμένοι διὰ πίστεως καὶ τοῦτο οὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον οὐκ ἐξ ἔργων ἵνα μή τις καυχήσηται

Did I say the grammar supports "that conclusion?" So yet another strawman argument, another change the subject argument, another deflection, more obfuscation.

I said: "Sad thread, poster after poster denying the obvious.

His faith, your faith mentioned many times, his God given faith never mentioned.

Talk about Group Think

Ephesians 2:8-9 does not say nor suggest faith is the gift or is part of the gift. The claim is simply reading what is not there into the text. Twaddle

Whose faith did God credit as righteousness in Romans 4:4-5? "Abraham's faith, his faith."

 

[Van]

Perhaps you could demonstrate how the grammar supports that conclusion:

[Eph 2:8-9] τῇ γὰρ χάριτί ἐστε σεσῳσμένοι διὰ πίστεως καὶ τοῦτο οὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον οὐκ ἐξ ἔργων ἵνα μή τις καυχήσηται

Did I say the grammar supports "that conclusion?" So yet another strawman argument, another change the subject argument, another deflection, more obfuscation.

I said: "Sad thread, poster after poster denying the obvious.

His faith, your faith mentioned many times, his God given faith never mentioned.

Talk about Group Think

Ephesians 2:8-9 does not say nor suggest faith is the gift or is part of the gift. The claim is simply reading what is not there into the text. Twaddle

Whose faith did God credit as righteousness in Romans 4:4-5? "Abraham's faith, his faith."

 

[Reformed1689]

Did I say the grammar supports "that conclusion?" So yet another strawman argument, another change the subject argument, another deflection, more obfuscation.

I said: "Sad thread, poster after poster denying the obvious.

Deflection.

Ephesians 2:8-9 does not say nor suggest faith is the gift or is part of the gift. The claim is simply reading what is not there into the text. Twaddle

Well the king of saying "you said 'taint so'" just said "Taint So!"

You were asked to support your assertion based on the grammar and refused to do so.

 

[Van]

In Ephesians 2:8, “Saved” is a [masculine] noun and “it”, “that” and “gift” are all [neuter] so they cannot refer to “saved” (the gender of nouns matches in Greek grammar so you know which words modify which other words. English uses word order, but Greek uses word gender).

Thanks but as it happens, I already knew that information. Salvation by grace is the gift of God, and that salvation is accessed through or on account of God crediting the person's faith as righteousness.

There is not actual support for the TULI of the tulip in scripture, just bogus claims read into it.

 

[Van]

Deflection.

Well the king of saying "you said 'taint so'" just said "Taint So!"

You were asked to support your assertion based on the grammar and refused to do so.

Your bag is to deflect and obfuscate, and deny some of your questions are for the purpose of disparagement. But no content, no contribution.

In this case, through faith means the gift is obtained or accessed through or on account of God crediting the person's faith as righteousness.

 

[Revmitchell]

Your bag is to deflect and obfuscate, and deny some of your questions are for the purpose of disparagement. But no content, no contribution.

In this case, through faith means the gift is obtained or accessed through or on account of God crediting the person's faith as righteousness.

Yep, it appears that some like to put the accusation in the form of a question to get by with it.

 

[Van]

Yep, it appears that some like to put the accusation in the form of a question to get by with it.

Sad but true. Sadder still is the fact that the use of against the man arguments, even disguised as a question, are simply fallacies used to defend falsehood.

 

[kyredneck]

“Saving” is an adjective to distinguish one type of “faith” from another. As in ...

Saving Faith
[Luke 7:50 NASB] And He said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."

2 And behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, be of good cheer; thy sins are forgiven. Mt 9
5 And Jesus seeing their faith saith unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins are forgiven. Mk 2
20 And seeing their faith, he said, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee. Lu 5

That's some bodacious 'saving faith', eh? Powerful enough to get another's sins forgiven.