Where Does Faith Come From?

[MB]

You are incorrect in your understanding of the Reformed Ordo Salutis. No one is saved apart from faith.

If you are saved before faith you are saved with out faith. I agree that we have to have faith to be saved. Although that would mean that Calvinist believed before being saved. Just like I did. It seems That Calvinist are always talking about saving faith. How ever if they cannot believe before being saved. Saving faith wouldn't do them any good. Would it?
MB

 

[SovereignGrace]

What nature did Adam and Eve have before the fall?

They were created sinless, but fallible. You can’t compare how they came into the world with how we came into the world. We can in fallen in Adam, dead in sin, being in Adam.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Correct Faith is hearing God, Those who have exercised faith do want to hear His voice. This is not a salvation verse but obedience of a believer following Him

Faith is what justifies us. Faith is a fruit of the Spirit.

They hear the gospel. God works through the gospel, quickens them to life(this is what makes them hear God), they are given faith(justification) and repentance, they exercise them and are saved. This happens simultaneously.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Having faith is not salvation. Having Faith in the correct place allows us to be true to God and receive Salvation... Many have faith even in God but are lost.

Having faith is not salvation? Whoa! Justification? How are we declared righteous before God via the imputed righteousness of the Christ?

 

[Revmitchell]

They were created sinless, but fallible. You can’t compare how they came into the world with how we came into the world. We can in fallen in Adam, dead in sin, being in Adam.

No no, I am asking what was their nature. You have insisted that the lost can only act according to their nature. So why is that no also true of Adam and Eve?

 

[Reformed]

If you are saved before faith you are saved with out faith. I agree that we have to have faith to be saved. Although that would mean that Calvinist believed before being saved. Just like I did. It seems That Calvinist are always talking about saving faith. How ever if they cannot believe before being saved. Saving faith wouldn't do them any good. Would it?
MB

The Calvinist believes that regeneration precedes faith but is not independent of faith. The Ordo Salutis (order of salvation) has a logical order to it, but all it's component parts work together. This article explains it better than me: Ordo Salutis | Monergism

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[SovereignGrace]

No no, I am asking what was their nature. You have insisted that the lost can only act according to their nature. So why is that no also true of Adam and Eve?

Again, you comparing two who were created sinless and then fell, with us, who were born dead in sins, totally depraved.

Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.[James 1:15]

When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.[Genesis 3:6]

That which happened to them was what is described in James 1:15. The serpent deceived Eve. They had never been exposed to sin before this. God told them not to eat it. They chose to believe the serpent over God, and died in sin that very moment.

That changed their nature. Remember, they weren’t created infallible. They were the only ones who were posse peccare, posse non peccare.

 

[Revmitchell]

Again, you comparing two who were created sinless and then fell, with us, who were born dead in sins, totally depraved.

I know who I am comparing, What was their nature?

 

[Aaron]

It comes from the Spirit. Galatians 5:22-23

 

[JonC]

The Calvinist believes that regeneration precedes faith but is not independent of faith. The Ordo Salutis (order of salvation) has a logical order to it, but all it's component parts work together. This article explains it better than me: Ordo Salutis | Monergism

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We have to be careful....remember, we've (to include you) have already defined "Calvinism" in context to the "Cal vs Arm" forum to be less distinct a position as to be defined by logical orders. I get what you are saying here, but it is not what was insisted upon on other threads dealing with election and predestination.

 

[Reformed]

We have to be careful....remember, we've (to include you) have already defined "Calvinism" in context to the "Cal vs Arm" forum to be less distinct a position as to be defined by logical orders. I get what you are saying here, but it is not what was insisted upon on other threads dealing with election and predestination.

The Ordo Salutis is both casual and logical. I never, ever said it is a time based system of belief.

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[JonC]

The Ordo Salutis is both casual and logical. I never, ever said it is a time based system of belief.

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I think that you've confused me with another poster. I never argued that it was (or that you said it was) a time based system of belief.

 

[Gup20]

If I can point the flashlight at another part of the passage and ask an honest question ... what (in YOUR opinion) is "it" that has been granted "from the Father"?

[My answer would obviously be FAITH, the ability to believe. Your answer would likely be different.]

The “it” in this passage is “to come to the Father” which I would summarize with the term salvation.

 

[kyredneck]

It comes from the Spirit. Galatians 5:22-23

Where Does Faith Come From?

 

[Gup20]

No no, I am asking what was their nature. You have insisted that the lost can only act according to their nature. So why is that no also true of Adam and Eve?

I agree with Revmitchell. The fact that Adam & Eve acted contrary to their unfallen nature and brought sin into a world where sin didn’t exist suggests the Calvinistic interpretation of Rom 8:7 is inadequate.

 

[Gup20]

The Calvinist believes that regeneration precedes faith but is not independent of faith. The Ordo Salutis (order of salvation) has a logical order to it, but all it's component parts work together. This article explains it better than me: Ordo Salutis | Monergism

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Ephesians 1:13-14 (NASB) 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.

Acts 11:15-17 (NASB) 15 "And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as He did upon us at the beginning. 16 "And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.' 17 "Therefore if God gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God's way?"

These two passages speak explicitly to the order & indicate indwelling of the spirit comes after faith, not before.

 

[loDebar]

Faith is what justifies us. Faith is a fruit of the Spirit.

They hear the gospel. God works through the gospel, quickens them to life(this is what makes them hear God), they are given faith(justification) and repentance, they exercise them and are saved. This happens simultaneously.

We choose to use correctly the opportunity God gives us, so many don't , The parable of the sower

 

[Gup20]

.

That changed their nature. Remember, they weren’t created infallible. They were the only ones who were posse peccare, posse non peccare.

This is the point - they didn’t have a sin nature, but sinned nonetheless. If they could act against their nature & sin, why couldn’t we who have a sin nature also act contrary to that nature & behave (albeit not regularly) righteously?

Romans 2:14-15 (NASB) 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,


Genesis 3:22 (NASB) Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"--

If the unsaved have God’s good law on their hearts, and have a knowledge of good, they can’t be totally depraved of good.

 

[Iconoclast]

"MB

There is only one kind of faith in God, and it comes by hearing the word of God. Rom 10:17. In fact even the weakest of faith in God is Saving faith.

Posts 22,23 identify at least 5 kinds of faith mentioned in scripture.Only one is saving faith.

So where is the scripture that states there are different kinds of Faith in God?

read posts 22,23

 

[Iconoclast]

MB,

Speaking of saving faith

.
Yes...

Why would you care since you believe you are saved before faith?

Where did I ever say this? I never said it because I do not believe what you claim I said. Could you produce one post that even hints at this false idea?
Why not let me post what I believe and you post what you believe.

It all happens simultaneously, regeneration, repentance and faith, sealing by the Spirit.

The very term "Saving faith" implies you need it to be saved.

Saving faith describes the instrumentality used by God to save sinners