Where is Hell?

[3AngelsMom]

It said that they were all there:
Luk 15:1 Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.
Luk 15:2 And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.
Luk 15:3 And he spake this parable unto them, saying,

So after He had been talking a while it said that the Pharisees 'derided' Him.

Luk 16:14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.

That means that they scoffed at Him or turned their noses up at Him, and He continues through v. 18 to rebuke them.

When He is done rebuking them His 'tone', if you will, returns to the way He was speaking before and continues in the 'story' telling of PARABLES.

The 'given' name of Lazarus is not proof enough that it is a true tale, his name, like most, has a meaning, 'one who God helps'. Look at it again with that in there.

I have always understood this to be a parable, and it's meaning is very profound. If it is a true tale then it is merely a warning to sinners about torment. And Jesus Himself said that 'even if one came back from the dead to be warned they would not heed, they have the Bible' (paraphrased). So if they wouldn't heed a warning from someone returned from the dead, why would a story about someone in torment work?

I don't think that the message of the 'parable' in question is about hell or torment at all.

God Bless

 

[neal4christ]

The 'given' name of Lazarus is not proof enough that it is a true tale

I never said any such thing. I said that is why I see the parable as I do personally. My position still stands as my main point was to point out that you said that Jesus never changed the way that He talked throughout chs. 15 and 16, when in fact He did. And do you know 100% who the "them" is in 15:3? Because 2 different groups were referred to in the previous verses. So it could be one group or the other or all of them together, it is not clear.

That is fine you see the story in that way. Just because someone's name means something doesn't mean we should replace the name. If that is the case, we would have to do it with the entire Bible! I see what you are saying and was just pointing out an inconsistency. I can agree to disagree.

Neal

[ January 16, 2003, 02:34 PM: Message edited by: neal4christ ]

 

[neal4christ]

I have always understood this to be a parable, and it's meaning is very profound.

I would like to hear what you understand this to mean.

Neal

 

[neal4christ]

Also, just wondering. What is the point of knowing "where" hell is? Isn't it enough to know it is there? Really, I don't think there is anyone who knows 100% where hell is at, so it seems like a shot in the dark to venture a guess.

Neal

 

[Nimrod]

I had discussions before with a dispensationalist.
He told me when OT believers died they went to Abrahams bosom, and when Jesus died they entered into heaven. And from that point forward all believers who die go to heaven.

Who here believes this?
Where did OT saints go?

I believe this is a story that has a lot of truths to it but should not be taken literally. For one, OT believers die and went to heaven, not Abrahams bosom, and two, Jesus doesn't answer anyones prayers or requests in hell, I doubt he will even have a conversation with them like the one in Luke. Ezek has a verse on this, I forgot where.

IF Laz. was in heaven, wouldn't he feel sad to see the people suffer in hell? Was Laz. in heaven?

 

[Me2]

The parable about the rich man and lazarus is simply telling people the diifference of living within the spiritual environments of "Living by grace" and "living by the law"..

When we were drawn by God to himself..the first thing that occurs is we are killed by the law.
or simply God tells us that we "ARE" spiritually dead and we have to be buried with christ to be risen anew.

here Both "types" of characters died.....both saved..but one living still by the law...represented by the rich man. while the other character is living by grace...at rest. they were alive but yet were spiritually dead.

one at rest..one wrestling under the consequences and results of living by the law.
Hell is living under the law...simply explained in another way..
its fighting God over sovereignty..

Doesnt that sound like NOT accepting Jesus as LORD ???

You've got the spirit..but your not listening..continually fighting against the convictions and instructions of the spirit...thats Gods Wrath...Thats Hell

The "old man" wont die...continually "hiding" from God in outer darkness. the holy spirit is searing you with a hot iron..
Hell is not meant to be an environment of torture..its meant to be an environment of correction... your so called heaven...is hell

 

[Bro. Kevin]

I'm sorry, did you just say that Hell is not a place of torture? I beg to differ.

A place of torments - "And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom" (Luke 16:23).

A place of everlasting destruction - "Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;" (II Thessalonians 1:9).

A place where men are tormented with fire and brimstone - "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death" (Revelation 21:8).

A place where fire is not quenched - "Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched" (Mark 9:44).

I wonder, how is Hell a place for correcting if those there will never get out to do better?

 

[Me2]

If Hell is A spiritual Environment..isnt it supposed to be invisible and non-physical.

How do these characters see and feel and think and speak. How can fire be hot. or this character thirst.
Far too many inconsistencies..

And then theres that God "characterizing" himself as Infinite Love...and He specifically Creates This Environment to Torture His Creation..Forever ?..

Wouldnt That Action be Vendictive and Revengeful.?.
For what purpose ?
and to what End ?

How can he call himself infinite love while torturing people.?..

because, I couldnt..

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by Me2:
If Hell is A spiritual Environment..isnt it supposed to be invisible and non-physical.

Not necessarily.

Heaven is described as being a real, tangible place.

How do these characters see and feel and think and speak.

How do people in Heaven see or feel or think or speak?

How can fire be hot.

???

Fire, is hot by nature.

Far too many inconsistencies.

Like what?

And then theres that God "characterizing" himself as Infinite Love...and He specifically Creates This Environment to Torture His Creation..Forever?

Why do you say that that's why He created it?

Wouldnt That Action be Vendictive and Revengeful.?

God judges with absolute justice so He is entitled to vengance.

For what purpose ?
and to what End ?

Created for the devil and his angels.

How can he call himself infinite love while torturing people.?

You haven't demonstrated that He tortures people.

Rather than ask how He can call Himself infinitely loving while letting people choose to go to Hell, I think it's more accurate to ask how He can be infinitely just and offer them a way out.

because, I couldnt..

God's ways are higher than your ways.

 

[Me2]

Jesus Christ Is God The Creators Lamb that Takes Away The Sin Of The World....All Of It.

Hell Is A Place Where He Get To Get Double Payment For The Same Sin.

First He Sacrificed His son For The Debt and Now He's Exacting Double Payment.

Thats Not Justice.

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by Me2:
Jesus Christ Is God The Creators Lamb that Takes Away The Sin Of The World....All Of It.

Hell Is A Place Where He Get To Get Double Payment For The Same Sin.

First He Sacrificed His son For The Debt and Now He's Exacting Double Payment.

Thats Not Justice.

Huh?

 

[Me2]

and theres the Rub mike...

If Jesus Christ Died To Defeat Death..

or Can We Say Erradicated Sin..Permanantly.

How Can God Torment, Punish, torture...or Whatever to Whomever negatively concerning the payment of Sin..

He's would be Exacting Double Payment for Something Thats Already Been Paid for. Once (and For ALL) By Jesus dying For The Sin of The World.

And After Death...All those "Sinners" ?

If Jesus Died For All Sin...

After Death..
There would not be any...

Either your suggesting That Sin still Exists...
or Jesus Didnt Die For All Sin..

And God Is Still Demanding Payment.

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by Me2:
If Jesus Christ Died To Defeat Death..

or Can We Say Erradicated Sin..Permanantly.[qb]

No, we can't say that. That's not taught in scripture.

[qb]

How Can God Torment, Punish, torture or Whatever to Whomever negatively concerning the payment of Sin?

You still haven't shown that God tortures or torments anyone.

As for punishment, that's well within His authorit.

He's would be Exacting Double Payment for Something Thats Already Been Paid for.

No He's not. Those who have been bought by the atonement are not punished.

Once (and For ALL) By Jesus dying For The Sin of The World.

Jesus did die for the sins of the world, but teh world has rejected Him.

Either your suggesting That Sin still Exists

Sin does still exsist.

or Jesus Didnt Die For All Sin.

Jesus died for the sins of those who would follow Him.

And God Is Still Demanding Payment.

If you're a follower of Christ, no additional payment is necesary.

If you're not, no additional payment is acceptable.

 

[Bro. Kevin]

Me2, you're highly misinterpretting what the Bible says.
Those in Hell are those who did not accept Jesus. God did not make Hell for us and He does not put us there. It is for Satan and his angels. Those who reject Christ have np lace in Heaven and so they go to Hell. Plain and simple. There's no inconsistencies about it.

[ January 16, 2003, 11:23 PM: Message edited by: Bro. Kevin ]

 

[Me2]

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Co 15:24 Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death.
1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

No More Death…Anywhere

Physical or Spiritual

No need for A hell…or a place of seperation.

Thats What "Jesus Is Lord" Is All About...

Is He Lord over the power of Death and Sin.?..

Or does People being Seperated From God Prove otherwise...Oh, I get it ..He's not their Lord..
Just Like you can Say...He's not their God, Either.

When the Scriptures Say all are subdued..

All means All

 

[neal4christ]

Okay guys, let's pack up and go home! No more hell or death for anyone! Let's ignore Matt. 28:19-20 and Mark 16:15 and others! No need for the gospel anymore, or playing this church thing! Live like you want, you won't have to face any consequences!

(Yes, I am being sarcastic!)

Neal

 

[Bro. Kevin]

This was written after Christ's ressurection and it speaks concerning the future. Clearly it is not addressing Christs victory over the grave.

We may only have ressurection and forgiveness if we ask. Look for yourself..

LEST A MAN BE BORN AGAIN HE SHALL NOT SEE THE KINGDOM OF GOD

 

[Bro. Kevin]

My first post was too late to see yours Neal.
So I got one word: AMEN.

 

[Me2]

Whatever or Wherever Hell Is..I believe in two things concerning it..

It only has one human occupant, and one God.

Me2

 

[Bro. Kevin]

Then what you believe is opposite what the Bible states. Sorry, but that's the only way to spin it.