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Where is Hell?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by 3AngelsMom, Jan 14, 2003.

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  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    SolaScriptura
    DHK, if your god and your father does not do as Jesus Christ said (in Matt 18) "So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses" then your god is an idol that you conjured up in your own mind.

    When I posted the point of "forgiveness revoked" in MAtt 18. DHK ignored the text of Matt 18 and simply asked if I really believed God's Word on that point. (Not a compelling response to my point in my view).

    When I pointed out the "SEQUENCE" of Rev 20-21 SHOWING that the statement that "God will wipe away all tears" occurse AFTER the lake of fire event of Rev 20. DHK responds "SEQUENCE does not matter".

    But in fact - the DETAILS of the text DO matter (as in all cases). And the fact that it is not until AFTER the lake of fire event that "All tears are wiped away" is "instructive" for the view that 3AngelsMom has outlined and that I have agreed upon regarding our own suffering and sadness at the loss of ANY friend or loved one in the lake of fire.

    For the BURNING fiery judgment of God - is "IN the presence of the LAMB AND of His saints" Rev 14:10.

    (again - back to "WHERE is Hell").

    IN Christ,

    Bob
     
    #141 BobRyan, Jan 23, 2003
  2. SolaScriptura in 2003

    SolaScriptura in 2003 New Member

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    I must agree that the details of the text matter. Why would anyone in heaven have tears? The only thing I can think of is that someone they knew and loved went to hell. Some would say that this would keep them from enoying heaven, but the Scripture affirms that God will "wipe away their tears," showing that even though we will be sad about our friends' eternal state, God will be able to cheer us up.

    [ January 23, 2003, 02:09 AM: Message edited by: SolaScriptura in 2003 ]
     
    #142 SolaScriptura in 2003, Jan 23, 2003
  3. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Mat.18:23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
    35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
    The context is a parable of a king and his subjects, and the relationship between a king and his subjects. The parable is not about the relationship of a Father to his children. It does talk of forgiveness, but you are obviously reading too much into the parable—an earthly story meant to convey a heavenly truth.
    Please don’t take Scripture out of context. It is not my father (not here on earth, nor in Heaven) that would send his children to Hell. However if you are not born again you may not be one of His children, and thus by rejecting His Son, will be sending your own selves to Hell.
    DHK
     
    #143 DHK, Jan 23, 2003
  4. 3AngelsMom

    3AngelsMom <img src =/3mom.jpg>

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    You think that over a third is little? IF you were taxed over a third of your income would you think it was little? More than a third, no matter how you slice it, is ALLOT.
    Ok, that's a happy idea and all, but where is that in the Bible? The 'soul' does not exist without the Spirit. 'God formed man from the dust of the ground and He breathed into his nostrils the breath of life (ruwach)and man BECAME a living soul'. Now reverse the process. 'Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit (ruwach) shall return unto God who gave it.' The same spirit that made man is the spirit that returns to God.

    Well I can think of something worse than taking Scripture out of context, MAKING a doctrine up without any Scriptural support! Where, oh, where, did you get his doctrine? I'm sorry for the sarcasm but seriously, where does it say that at the 'end of the tribulation period' in that passage? This is beyond taking something out of context. I posted the WHOLE passage, and didn't take a WORD out of context. I pointed to words in the passage.
    Firstly, it was God that I quoted, and WHY would you think I was calling Him a liar? Yes, there will be a new heaven and a new earth, there is no dispute there, but based on the Jeramiah passage, there is evidence that God will cleanse this earth with fire and 'start new' on the same 'abyss' that was here at creation. Jeramiah 4:27. For thus hath the Lord said, The whole land shall be desolate; [yet will I not make a full end.]

    So NOW we can be figurative? The sea here means THE SEA. The oceans, lakes, rivers, bodies of h2o. Death, COULD NOT mean the resurrected, because in this passage, is WHEN the dead are BEING resurrected. It HAD NOT taken place at this point. Hell, referring to those in hades, which is the Grave, finally we agree. All receiving their judgement of FIRE coming down out of heaven from God and devouring them. No tormenting them, devouring them. Forever and ever, is relative to the thing that it is referring to, and since wicked people will not have ANYTHING that is immortal, 'forever' for them is until they die. Just like Samuel, serving forever, and a slave serving his master forever, the fire will burn until they die.
    Firstly, this is not a failure on my part at all, on the contrary it seems to be your failure to believe that the Bible is true. NO MORE PAIN. ANYWHERE. PERIOD. It DOES NOT SAY no more tears IN HEAVEN. Let's look at it again:
    Revelation 21:4. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
    Secondly, you say He is not 'cruel enough' to torture those in heaven, yet He IS 'cruel enough' to torture the countless millions for all of eternity.

    I'm sorry but that just doesn't make sense.

    And this doctrine has turned away more people from Christ than ANY OTHER doctrine!

    God Bless.
     
    #144 3AngelsMom, Jan 23, 2003
  5. 3AngelsMom

    3AngelsMom <img src =/3mom.jpg>

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    Don't post on this thread, Go to Where is Hell Part II!
     
    #145 3AngelsMom, Jan 23, 2003
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