Where is Hell?

DHK and Neal,

NO, you do not have immortality NOW!

Are you subject to death?

Can you die?

Then you are NOT immortal!

God ALONE has immortality....how is that confusing?

We have the HOPE that we WILL be saved. We have not been saved yet!

We do not HAVE, RIGHT NOW, the ability to live on forever. We have the HOPE that Jesus will come back and either 'translate' our bodies to immortal ones, or raise our bodies incorrubtable.

There is no question that we WILL get eternal life. NO QUESTION.

The question is WHEN? You say you have it now, but if lightning struck you RIGHT NOW, would you live? NO, and that is my point.

The Spirit is NOT a separate entity from your body. You ARE a living soul, a combination of 'spirit' or 'breath' of life FROM God, and the 'fleshly elements' of the earth, or dust.

The Bible says that when those 2 things come together they make a living soul, and when that person dies they dust returns to the earth and the spirit or breath returns to God. Without the breath, we are just dirt. We cease to be a living soul when the spirit is taken away. We do not live on in 'the spirit world'. This idea is pagan.

You don't have a 'ghost' in you. (I know, you have the Holy Spirit, but that is not what I mean)

This docrine is anthropological dualism, it is pagan. The idea that you have 2 parts and that one is mortal and the other immortal is TOTALLY not scriptural.

DHK, please stop making random statements of judgement, like 'not really saved' and 'don't have our hope'. You don't know me, or my state, and you shouldn't be making those kinds of judgements. Thank you.

God Bless

 

Absolutely! The Spirit that dwells in me is the Holy Spirit, by whom I am sealed UNTIL the day of redemption, which is the resurrection on the last day. There is no doubt in my mind as to this subject.

To be born again: To have MY own nature 'killed' with the power of the HS, so that I can live in Christ having put to death the 'flesh' that would control me, along with it's desires. I consider the day that I surrendered to Christ, when I gave Him full control of my life and mind when I was born again. I was shown through the Bible and the Holy Spirit that I was a sinner, and I sought God for forgiveness of those sins. I have been given the PROMISE of eternal life. I am not immortal now. I can die at any moment. When Christ returns to earth He will give me a new body that will be immortal. Right now nothing in me is immortal.

You are again making judgements! I have eternal life, waiting for me at the last day. I am NOT eternal now. Neither are you. Being 'saved' does not mean 'spent'. I have not received my reward yet. Neither have you.

Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps, you need to keep your judgements to yourself. The measure you use on me will be measured unto YOU.

Back to the topic though, being made alive in your spirit does not make you immortal. Your body could die at any moment, and according to the Bible, if your body dies, it has lost it's spirit, or breath of life and the body goes back to the earth and the Spirit or breath, goes back to God.

Genesis 2:7 (KJV)
7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

'breath of life'-
05397 n@shamah {nesh-aw-maw'}
AV - breath 17, blast 3, spirit 2, inspiration 1, souls 1; 24
1) breath, spirit 1a) breath (of God) 1b) breath (of man) 1c) every breathing thing 1d) spirit (of man)

Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV)
7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

'spirit'- (ruwach), breath, wind, blast.

Job 27:3 (KJV)
3All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;

'breath'- (nashama)-breath
'spirit'-(ruwach)- breath, wind, blast.

Psalm 146:3 (KJV)
3Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
4His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

'breath'- (ruwach) breath, wind, blast (note same as spirit in last verse)
Note: In the day he dies HIS THOUGHTS perish
Perish- 06 'abad {aw-bad'}
AV - perish 98, destroy 62, lose 10, fail 2, surely 2, utterly 2, broken 1, destruction 1, escape 1, flee 1, spendeth 1, take 1, undone 1, void 1; 184

1 Timothy 6:15 (KJV)
15Which in his times he shall show, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Note: the PRESENT TENSE of the verb HATH. That means NOT YOU, JUST HIM, HATH IMMORTALITY. That means RIGHT NOW He is the ONLY one who is immortal. HATH. RIGHT NOW.

Romans 2:7 (KJV)
7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:11For there is no respect of persons with God.

Let's see, this was a LONG time ago, and they were SEEKING immortality. Who was? Those who were ALREADY serving God. THE SAVED. So if they were ALREADY saved, why were they seeking immortality and eternal life? If they already have it why seek it? HMMMM

1 Corinthians 15:51 (KJV)
51Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Lets see, at the last trump, THEN we will put on immortality, THEN we will be changed. ALL will be changed. None of us are already immortal, otherwise why would we need to change?
Note: the 8 instances of the word 'shall' those are all FUTURE tense.

Psalm 115:17 (KJV)
17The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

Those who are 'dead', or not alive in their bodies anymore, DO NOT praise the Lord. Now, if you die, and you go straight to Heaven, don't you think you will be praising Him? This verse likens the dead people to those who are mute. The mute do not speak just as the dead do not speak.

Psalm 6:5 (KJV)
5For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

Those dead do not remember anything, nor give thanks. If they were in heaven, don't you think they would remember and give thanks?

Job 19:25 (KJV)
25For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
26And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

HMMM, sounds like this person, Job, knows that worms will eat his body, and that in the last day he will be resurrected with a new body to see God. Doesn't sound like he believed in dualism.

Ezekiel 18:4 (KJV)
4Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

'soul' 05315 nephesh {neh'-fesh}
AV - soul 475, life 117, person 29, mind 15, heart 15, creature 9, body 8....

This is the same 'soul' used in Genesis 2:7 when God made Adam a 'living soul' out of dirt and 'spirit' or breath as it is called there.

The SOUL shall die. DIE. Why is that a confusing term for some. If a bug dies what is it? DIRT. The same breath that makes you alive makes that bug alive, and when you die, you too return to DIRT.

Romans 6:23 (KJV)
23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The wage (payment) is death. YOU are saved, and again, you have NOT spent that 'redemption' yet.

2 Timothy 4:7 (KJV)
7I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

It is laid up, or put away, 'saved', and God 'shall' (there's that future tense again) give it to us at THAT day. Which day? The day He appears.

Revelation 22:12 (KJV)
12And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

IF Jesus has the reward with Him, how could you already have it? (uh oh, there's that shall again)

Ecclesiastes 9:5 (KJV)
5For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

They KNOW nothing, and have no memory. They DO NOT HAVE their reward.

'For the living know that they shall die.'

Perhaps, that is YOUR problem, you don't think you will die.

You have been duped by the first lie ever told to mankind.

Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

But what did God tell them?

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Now let's compare those:

Ye shall not surely die -SATAN
thou shalt surely die. -GOD

Notice that Satan added just ONE word to God's and started every bit of this doctrine that you hold so tightly to.

That's all it takes. Just a little false to make the WHOLE thing a lie.

God ALONE HAS immortality.

If you cannot dismiss this, THE DOCTRINE IS FALSE.

God Bless

 

There will be 2 kinds of people taken up when Jesus returns, the righteous dead and the righteous living. Jesus makes reference to the 2 groups in this passage. This verse is right in the middle of the story of the resurrection of Lazarus. Martha questioned Jesus in His statement that Lazarus was 'asleep' and then made it plain that he was DEAD. When He told her that 'thy bother shall rise again'. She said 'of course he will, in the resurrection on the last day', and Jesus replied- 'I am the resurrection and the life, he that believes in me, and is dead, he will live, and whoever is alive and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?'

Clearly Jesus is speaking of the resurrection, based on the context of the passage. He speaks there of the 2 groups, those who 'believe and are dead, that will live again' and those who are 'alive and believe that will never die'. This is not stating that YOU are immortal, or that you won't die. Jesus is showing that He will raise the dead and give them immortal bodies, and that He will 'rapture' the living and give them immortal bodies.

The only way that verse 26 could apply to you is if you are alive when Jesus returns.

God Bless

 

Where is that in the Bible?

Does the Spirit that dwells in me (the Holy Spirit) bear witness with MY spirit, well, NO because I don't have MY own spirit, it is ALL God's spirit that not only dwells in me in the form of the Holy Spirit, but also is the force that makes me a living soul.

Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Spirit- BOTH times - 4151 pneuma {pnyoo'-mah}

AV - Spirit 111, Holy Ghost 89, Spirit (of God) 13, Spirit (of the Lord) 5, (My) Spirit 3, Spirit (of truth) 3, Spirit (of Christ) 2, human (spirit) 49, (evil) spirit 47, spirit (general) 26, spirit 8, (Jesus' own) spirit 6, (Jesus' own) ghost 2, misc 21; 385
1) the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son 1a) sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his personality and character (the \\Holy\\ Spirit) 1b) sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his work and power (the Spirit of \\Truth\\) 1c) never referred to as a depersonalised force 2) the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated 2a) the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels, thinks, decides 2b) the soul 3) a spirit, i.e. a simple essence, devoid of all or at least all grosser matter, and possessed of the power of knowing, desiring, deciding, and acting 3a) a life giving spirit 4) a gentle blast) 4a) of the wind, hence the wind itself 4b) breath of nostrils or mouth

So to answer your question OF COURSE the 2 agree, for they are one. They agree that I am a child of God.

Just to show IN context the verse you quoted:

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

If we have the Spirit, no man can judge us because we walk in the Spirit and cause nothing that COULD make someone want to judge us.

No? What does the Bible say?

Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

HMMM. Why would He tell us to look up and lift up our heads at the second coming for our redemption, if we already have it?

And it is a metaphor. Wages=death debt=sin redemption=payment It isn't spent yet..... not too difficult.

Firstly Ephesians 2:1,

1. And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

I guess it makes for a great argument BY ITSELF, but then, it isn't by itself is it? Let's see the context here:

2. Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3. Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5. Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6. And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7. That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9. Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Now, when did Paul write this? About 2000 years ago, yes? Was he in heaven then? Was he writing FROM heaven?

He said 'And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus'. If he wasn't there, how could he have been speaking of NOW. He spoke of the resurrection.

Secondly:

'the soul can die but not the spirit'?????

Living soul= dust+ breath/from GOD.

Of course the spirit cannot die. IT IS GOD.

Your Whole- made up of:
Body- flesh + Spirit- breath from God = A LIVING SOUL!!!

In the greek it says

'holokleros (whole) pneuma (Holy Spirit,breath) psuche (vital breath) soma (body,of believers,ie.group,literally body, of animals,man)'

Whole-Holy Spirit,breath-vital breath-literal body

That is what we are made of.

3 Things to be preserved blameless and whole until the coming of Christ. Whole. Together.

SO if at 'death' your 'ghost' goes up to heaven, how then could you as a 'whole' be preserved until the resurrection?

And the blessing here is in the wish that we would be preserved BLAMELESS. How could that be? ONLY through the power of the Holy Spirit! AS part of the whole. That when we die we are a whole person body-flesh, spirit-GODS, soul-complete. It is so simple.

Ok:

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Absolutely!

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Thank God for that!

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

AMEN! So glad I hear His voice! NEVER PERISH. It makes so much sense. Death is sleep. The righteous awake to life everlasting, as promised, the wicked awaken to judgement and annihilation. It makes so much sense. Jesus died to free me from sin, and to take away the penalty for it, DEATH. Those who don't accept His FREE gift, they must suffer the consequence. DEATH.

Gotta go answer Neal now, he probably thinks I am ignoring him.

God Bless

 

If you do not understand, or cannot define such a basic concept as "death" that would invalidate almost everything you have said up to this point.
DHK</font>[/QUOTE]here, for the kindergartener:

please define cessation and separation in respect to your question about death.

but wait, I wasn't TALKING TO YOU WAS I????

 

Neal,

Could you please explain what you mean by cessation and separation.

What do you think death is.

Throw me a friggin bone here.