Where is Hell?

[BobRyan]

SolaScriptura
DHK, if your god and your father does not do as Jesus Christ said (in Matt 18) "So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses" then your god is an idol that you conjured up in your own mind.

When I posted the point of "forgiveness revoked" in MAtt 18. DHK ignored the text of Matt 18 and simply asked if I really believed God's Word on that point. (Not a compelling response to my point in my view).

When I pointed out the "SEQUENCE" of Rev 20-21 SHOWING that the statement that "God will wipe away all tears" occurse AFTER the lake of fire event of Rev 20. DHK responds "SEQUENCE does not matter".

But in fact - the DETAILS of the text DO matter (as in all cases). And the fact that it is not until AFTER the lake of fire event that "All tears are wiped away" is "instructive" for the view that 3AngelsMom has outlined and that I have agreed upon regarding our own suffering and sadness at the loss of ANY friend or loved one in the lake of fire.

For the BURNING fiery judgment of God - is "IN the presence of the LAMB AND of His saints" Rev 14:10.

(again - back to "WHERE is Hell").

IN Christ,

Bob

 

[SolaScriptura in 2003]

I must agree that the details of the text matter. Why would anyone in heaven have tears? The only thing I can think of is that someone they knew and loved went to hell. Some would say that this would keep them from enoying heaven, but the Scripture affirms that God will "wipe away their tears," showing that even though we will be sad about our friends' eternal state, God will be able to cheer us up.

[ January 23, 2003, 02:09 AM: Message edited by: SolaScriptura in 2003 ]

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by BobRyan:
DHK, if your god and your father does not do as Jesus Christ said (in Matt 18) "So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses" then your god is an idol that you conjured up in your own mind.

When I posted the point of "forgiveness revoked" in MAtt 18. DHK ignored the text of Matt 18 and simply asked if I really believed God's Word on that point. (Not a compelling response to my point in my view).
[/b]

Mat.18:23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
The context is a parable of a king and his subjects, and the relationship between a king and his subjects. The parable is not about the relationship of a Father to his children. It does talk of forgiveness, but you are obviously reading too much into the parable—an earthly story meant to convey a heavenly truth.
Please don’t take Scripture out of context. It is not my father (not here on earth, nor in Heaven) that would send his children to Hell. However if you are not born again you may not be one of His children, and thus by rejecting His Son, will be sending your own selves to Hell.
DHK

 

[3AngelsMom]

Originally posted by DHK:
[QB]The word "sleep" or "slept" is used 131 times in Scripture. You say 50 times it refers to death. In those verses that it does (which is comparatively little over all), it always refers to the body.

You think that over a third is little? IF you were taxed over a third of your income would you think it was little? More than a third, no matter how you slice it, is ALLOT.

The word sleep is used inferring that the body will rise again. It is separated from the spirit which still lives. The body, dead, will sleep in death, and await the resurrection, when it will be joined again with its spirit.

Ok, that's a happy idea and all, but where is that in the Bible? The 'soul' does not exist without the Spirit. 'God formed man from the dust of the ground and He breathed into his nostrils the breath of life (ruwach)and man BECAME a living soul'. Now reverse the process. 'Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit (ruwach) shall return unto God who gave it.' The same spirit that made man is the spirit that returns to God.

Nothing like taking Scripture out of context. Malachi 4, is talking of the "Day of the Lord," which takes place at the end of the Tribulation Period. The Lord will come, and the Jews will defeat their enemies and trample them down--literally. The Millennial Kingdom will then be set up where Christ will rule for a thousand years. This chapter has nothing to do with you. It is Old Testament; Malachi is speaking to the nation of Israel.

Well I can think of something worse than taking Scripture out of context, MAKING a doctrine up without any Scriptural support! Where, oh, where, did you get his doctrine? I'm sorry for the sarcasm but seriously, where does it say that at the 'end of the tribulation period' in that passage? This is beyond taking something out of context. I posted the WHOLE passage, and didn't take a WORD out of context. I pointed to words in the passage.

I prefer to believe God, not you, on this one. When God says He is going to create a new heaven and a new earth that is exactly what He means. Please don't call Him a liar. Peter says that this one will be destroyed with fire. (2Pet.3:10-12).

Firstly, it was God that I quoted, and WHY would you think I was calling Him a liar? Yes, there will be a new heaven and a new earth, there is no dispute there, but based on the Jeramiah passage, there is evidence that God will cleanse this earth with fire and 'start new' on the same 'abyss' that was here at creation. Jeramiah 4:27. For thus hath the Lord said, The whole land shall be desolate; [yet will I not make a full end.]

The sea--figurative: of the masses of mankind.
Death--referring to the dead in their resurrected bodies, as the second resurrection has taken place.
Hell--referring to all those in Hades.
All receiving their condemnation in the Lake of fire to be tormented forever and ever.

So NOW we can be figurative? The sea here means THE SEA. The oceans, lakes, rivers, bodies of h2o. Death, COULD NOT mean the resurrected, because in this passage, is WHEN the dead are BEING resurrected. It HAD NOT taken place at this point. Hell, referring to those in hades, which is the Grave, finally we agree. All receiving their judgement of FIRE coming down out of heaven from God and devouring them. No tormenting them, devouring them. Forever and ever, is relative to the thing that it is referring to, and since wicked people will not have ANYTHING that is immortal, 'forever' for them is until they die. Just like Samuel, serving forever, and a slave serving his master forever, the fire will burn until they die.

Again this is your failure to believe the promises of God that there will be no more tears in Heaven. Trust God for that situation. He is not cruel enough to torture those in Heaven.
DHK

Firstly, this is not a failure on my part at all, on the contrary it seems to be your failure to believe that the Bible is true. NO MORE PAIN. ANYWHERE. PERIOD. It DOES NOT SAY no more tears IN HEAVEN. Let's look at it again:
Revelation 21:4. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Secondly, you say He is not 'cruel enough' to torture those in heaven, yet He IS 'cruel enough' to torture the countless millions for all of eternity.

I'm sorry but that just doesn't make sense.

And this doctrine has turned away more people from Christ than ANY OTHER doctrine!

God Bless.

 

[3AngelsMom]

Don't post on this thread, Go to Where is Hell Part II!