Which is better, the NKJV or the Niv 2011?

[Martin Marprelate]

I am not a fan of how Contemporary English uses gender-neutral language, removing-adding words for humanity, though not for God.

I agree.

Contemporary English removing "begotten" from a verse like Jn. 3:16 for example is a problem.

The New American Standard Version and the New King James Version both have 'begotten' in John 3:16 etc. I agree with you that it's important.

All so-called new, modern versions are typical of removing the deity of Christ- but you already know that.

You should be aware that the KJV shares with the NWT the dubious honour of omitting the deity of Christ in Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

We are studying the book of Isaiah, and I have Motyer's book -- which is excellent, in my opinion. We are at chapter 40, having gone through all the previous chapters verse by verse. What you mention is one thing that has caught my attention in Motyer's book. Even though it uses the NIV as its primary text, Motyer is quite often disagreeing with its translation.

It is an excellent book; the best commentary on Isaiah that I'm aware of. I met Motyer and heard him speak once: a very fine man. He died just a year or so back.
I believe that IVP required him to use the NIV because they thought the book would sell better. They also made him condense the commentary somewhat to get it into one volume.

 

[terrpn]

I agree.

The New American Standard Version and the New King James Version both have 'begotten' in John 3:16 etc. I agree with you that it's important.

You should be aware that the KJV shares with the NWT the dubious honour of omitting the deity of Christ in Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1.

Was not aware.....thanks for the imfo[emoji106]


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[rlvaughn]

It is an excellent book; the best commentary on Isaiah that I'm aware of.

There are other good commentaries on Isaiah, but this one is by far the best of all that I have consulted!

I met Motyer and heard him speak once: a very fine man. He died just a year or so back.

Died in 2016, according to Amazon.com info. Neat that you had the opportunity to meet him!

I believe that IVP required him to use the NIV because they thought the book would sell better.

I have no knowledge on the matter, but that sounds likely.

 

[TCassidy]

Making a stand is always decisive, I stand by what I said and no one can convince me other wise.

Yes, but can you support your claim with evidence? Can you show us where the "new, modern versions are typical of removing the deity of Christ?"

When you make such a claim the burden of proof is on you. You have two options. #1 Support the claim with evidence. #2 Withdraw the claim.

 

[terrpn]

There are other good commentaries on Isaiah, but this one is by far the best of all that I have consulted! Died in 2016, according to Amazon.com info. Neat that you had the opportunity to meet him! I have no knowledge on the matter, but that sounds likely.

Is his book offered through Amazon and maybe in a Kindle version?


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[rlvaughn]

Yes, Amazon has it in Kindle, Hardcover, and Paperback.

The Prophecy of Isaiah: An Introduction & Commentary

 

[McCree79]

. All so-called new, modern versions are typical of removing the deity of Christ- but you already know that.

I would say the KJV is worse than modern translations. The NLT seems clearer than all on the deity of Christ. Here is a small sample of modern translations being as clear or clearer than the KJV. ...and even the NKJV.


John 1:18

ESV|No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.

NLT|No one has ever seen God °. But the°unique One, who is himself God, °is °near to the Father’s °heart. He has °revealed God to us . 49.1% difference

NKJV|No one has °seen God °at any time. The only °begotten Son , who is °in the bosom of the °Father , °He has °declared Him . 50% difference

HCSB|No one has ever seen God °. The One and Only Son — the °One who is at the Father’s side °— He has °revealed Him .41.2% difference

KJV 1900|No °man hath seen God at any time ; the only °begotten Son , °which is °in the bosom of the °Father , he °hath declared him °. 50% difference

John 1:1 -basically the same
ESV|In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

NLT|In the beginning °the Word °already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. 20% difference

NKJV|In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 0% difference

HCSB|In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 0% difference

KJV 1900|°IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 5% difference

Titus 2:13- The KJV seems to separate God from our Saviour.
ESV|waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

NLT|°while we look forward with hope °to that wonderful day when the glory of our great God and Savior , Jesus Christ, will be revealed. 48.9% difference

NKJV|°looking for °the blessed hope °and glorious appearing of °our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 29.7% difference

HCSB|°while we wait for °the blessed hope°and appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior , Jesus Christ °. 28.6% difference

KJV 1900|°Looking for °that blessed hope,and the glorious appearing of the °great God and °our Saviour Jesus Christ °;35% difference

2Peter 1:1- same as previous. The inserting of "our" in the KJV seems to imply separation from our Saviour and God.
ESV|Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

NLT|°This letter is from Simon Peter, a°slave and apostle of Jesus Christ °. I am writing to you who share the same precious faith we have °. This faith was given to you because of °the °justice and fairness of Jesus Christ, our God and Savior °.57.1% difference

NKJV|°Simon Peter, a °bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained °like precious faith °with °us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: 18.2% difference

HCSB|Simeon Peter, a °slave and an apostle of Jesus Christ °: To those who have obtained a faith of equal °privilege with ours°through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ °. 15.9% difference

KJV 1900|°SIMON Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, °to them that have obtained °like precious faith °with °us through the righteousness of °God and °our Saviour Jesus Christ: 34.3% difference

Colossians 2:9- ESV is strong as usual, but the NLT is impressive.
ESV|For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,

NLT|For in °Christ lives all the °fullness of°God in a human body. 60% difference

NKJV|For in °Him dwells all the °fullness of°the Godhead bodily °; 47.8% difference

HCSB|For °the °entire fullness of °God’s nature dwells bodily in Christ ,39.1% difference

KJV 1900|For in him dwelleth all the°fulness of °the Godhead bodily °.47.8% difference



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[terrpn]

Yes, Amazon has it in Kindle, Hardcover, and Paperback.

The Prophecy of Isaiah: An Introduction & Commentary

Thanks!


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[terrpn]

I would say the KJV is worse than modern translations. The NLT seems clearer than all on the deity of Christ. Here is a small sample of modern translations being as clear or clearer than the KJV. ...and even the NKJV.


John 1:18

ESV|No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.

NLT|No one has ever seen God °. But the°unique One, who is himself God, °is °near to the Father’s °heart. He has °revealed God to us . 49.1% difference

NKJV|No one has °seen God °at any time. The only °begotten Son , who is °in the bosom of the °Father , °He has °declared Him . 50% difference

HCSB|No one has ever seen God °. The One and Only Son — the °One who is at the Father’s side °— He has °revealed Him .41.2% difference

KJV 1900|No °man hath seen God at any time ; the only °begotten Son , °which is °in the bosom of the °Father , he °hath declared him °. 50% difference

John 1:1 -basically the same
ESV|In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

NLT|In the beginning °the Word °already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. 20% difference

NKJV|In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 0% difference

HCSB|In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 0% difference

KJV 1900|°IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 5% difference

Titus 2:13- The KJV seems to separate God from our Saviour.
ESV|waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

NLT|°while we look forward with hope °to that wonderful day when the glory of our great God and Savior , Jesus Christ, will be revealed. 48.9% difference

NKJV|°looking for °the blessed hope °and glorious appearing of °our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 29.7% difference

HCSB|°while we wait for °the blessed hope°and appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior , Jesus Christ °. 28.6% difference

KJV 1900|°Looking for °that blessed hope,and the glorious appearing of the °great God and °our Saviour Jesus Christ °;35% difference

2Peter 1:1- same as previous. The inserting of "our" in the KJV seems to imply separation from our Saviour and God.
ESV|Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

NLT|°This letter is from Simon Peter, a°slave and apostle of Jesus Christ °. I am writing to you who share the same precious faith we have °. This faith was given to you because of °the °justice and fairness of Jesus Christ, our God and Savior °.57.1% difference

NKJV|°Simon Peter, a °bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained °like precious faith °with °us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: 18.2% difference

HCSB|Simeon Peter, a °slave and an apostle of Jesus Christ °: To those who have obtained a faith of equal °privilege with ours°through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ °. 15.9% difference

KJV 1900|°SIMON Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, °to them that have obtained °like precious faith °with °us through the righteousness of °God and °our Saviour Jesus Christ: 34.3% difference

Colossians 2:9- ESV is strong as usual, but the NLT is impressive.
ESV|For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,

NLT|For in °Christ lives all the °fullness of°God in a human body. 60% difference

NKJV|For in °Him dwells all the °fullness of°the Godhead bodily °; 47.8% difference

HCSB|For °the °entire fullness of °God’s nature dwells bodily in Christ ,39.1% difference

KJV 1900|For in him dwelleth all the°fulness of °the Godhead bodily °.47.8% difference



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That took a lot of effort- thank you


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[terrpn]

Yes, but can you support your claim with evidence? Can you show us where the "new, modern versions are typical of removing the deity of Christ?"

When you make such a claim the burden of proof is on you. You have two options. #1 Support the claim with evidence. #2 Withdraw the claim.

I gave you one in Jn 3:16.........


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[TCassidy]

I gave you one in Jn 3:16.

Where? And what version? And why do you contend that version denies the Deity of Christ?

 

[Yeshua1]

We can agree to disagree and mostly from reading your Posts I cannot argue. Of course it depends on how or if the contemporary English communicates the Received Text?

I am not a fan of how Contemporary English uses gender-neutral language, removing-adding words for humanity, though not for God. Contemporary English removing "begotten" from a verse like Jn. 3:16 for example is a problem. All so-called new, modern versions are typical of removing the deity of Christ- but you already know that.

That being said one can lead someone to Christ with a NWT, CEV, NIV (which one......?) and so on. I do enjoy using my Parallel Bible and reading through the different variations of scripture.

I prefer to use the more formal translations , such as the Nas/Nkjv, but do see the the Nlt/Niv/Csb as being real translations of the word of God to us in English!

 

[Yeshua1]

I gave you one in Jn 3:16.........


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Do ANY Modern English translations that are not JW or other cultic version, deny that Jesus is Lord there?

 

[Yeshua1]

I agree.

The New American Standard Version and the New King James Version both have 'begotten' in John 3:16 etc. I agree with you that it's important.

You should be aware that the KJV shares with the NWT the dubious honour of omitting the deity of Christ in Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1.

The Kjv is also the only version that I know of that called the Holy spirit 'It" in I believe 4 separate instances.

 

[Yeshua1]

It is an excellent book; the best commentary on Isaiah that I'm aware of. I met Motyer and heard him speak once: a very fine man. He died just a year or so back.
I believe that IVP required him to use the NIV because they thought the book would sell better. They also made him condense the commentary somewhat to get it into one volume.

His misgivings on the Niv should be a warning to all of us....

 

[Jerome]

The Kjv is also the only version that I know of that called the Holy spirit 'It" in I believe 4 separate instances.

What about your Reformed translation (Geneva)?

http://classic.studylight.org/desk/?query=ro+8:26&translation=gen&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en

http://classic.studylight.org/desk/?query=joh+1:32&translation=gen&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en

http://classic.studylight.org/desk/?query=mr+13:11&translation=gen&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en

http://classic.studylight.org/desk/?query=1jo+5:6&translation=gen&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en

 

[Yeshua1]

What about your Reformed translation (Geneva)?

http://classic.studylight.org/desk/?query=ro+8:26&translation=gen&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en

http://classic.studylight.org/desk/?query=joh+1:32&translation=gen&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en

http://classic.studylight.org/desk/?query=mr+13:11&translation=gen&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en

http://classic.studylight.org/desk/?query=1jo+5:6&translation=gen&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en

They were wrong also in this area!

 

[Jerome]

The Kjv is also the only version that I know of that called the Holy spirit 'It" in I believe 4 separate instances.

What about your Reformed translation (Geneva)?

They were wrong also in this area!

But you weren't wrong when you did it?:

why would it be the Holy Spriit involved, why not it be satan?

 

[Yeshua1]

But you weren't wrong when you did it?:

No, as I staed that It was the Holy spirit is not the same as saying the Holy spirit is an it!