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The breath of God...
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Jesus told the disciples 40 days after Resurrection Sunday and a few days before Pentecost:
"On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: "Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit. ... you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."" (Acts 1:4-8)
"I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high." (Luke 24:49)
Pay close attention to what Jesus said and what He did not say. He did not say that in a few days (at Pentecost) the disciples will receive forgiveness of sins or eternal life. He did not mention forgiveness of sins or eternal life at all! (Recall that these things were mentioned on Resurrection Sunday). Instead, Jesus specifically said that the disciples will receive power and will be clothed with power in a few days (at Pentecost). Then He described the ministry of evangelism which they would soon begin, saying that they would be His witnesses to the ends of the earth.
Therefore, we can see that Pentecost was the point at which the disciples received supernatural empowerment for their ministry.
At Pentecost, the Holy Spirit was poured out on the disciples for their spiritual empowerment in a great demonstration of supernatural power. There was the sound of a violent wind, visible tongues of fire, speaking in tongues, and powerful evangelism which resulted in roughly 3000 people being saved that day and many more being saved or healed after that. After Pentecost, "many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles." (Acts 2:43).
This leaves no doubt that when the disciples were filled with the Holy Spirit at Pentecost it was for their spiritual empowerment.
"On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: "Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit. ... you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."" (Acts 1:4-8)
"I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high." (Luke 24:49)
Pay close attention to what Jesus said and what He did not say. He did not say that in a few days (at Pentecost) the disciples will receive forgiveness of sins or eternal life. He did not mention forgiveness of sins or eternal life at all! (Recall that these things were mentioned on Resurrection Sunday). Instead, Jesus specifically said that the disciples will receive power and will be clothed with power in a few days (at Pentecost). Then He described the ministry of evangelism which they would soon begin, saying that they would be His witnesses to the ends of the earth.
Therefore, we can see that Pentecost was the point at which the disciples received supernatural empowerment for their ministry.
At Pentecost, the Holy Spirit was poured out on the disciples for their spiritual empowerment in a great demonstration of supernatural power. There was the sound of a violent wind, visible tongues of fire, speaking in tongues, and powerful evangelism which resulted in roughly 3000 people being saved that day and many more being saved or healed after that. After Pentecost, "many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles." (Acts 2:43).
This leaves no doubt that when the disciples were filled with the Holy Spirit at Pentecost it was for their spiritual empowerment.
Yes Pentecost was about spiritual empowerment. And then immediately God showed just what that empowerment was for. About 3000 people were saved. Tongues were used to share the gospel at Pentecost. Paul said tongues are a sign to unbelievers. The spiritual empowerment was to empower the church to share the gospel. What the church did not do was stay inside the four walls of the church and speak ungodly jibberish in a childish manner and fall on the floor for no good reason. The gospel and therefore the Kingdom of God was advanced.
Luke gives the setting in Acts one:
Acts 1:2 until the day in which he was received up, after that he had given commandment through the Holy Spirit unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
--The apostles; the chosen ones. They were saved. They were the very ones that he had chosen and taught.
Acts 1:4 and, being assembled together with them, he charged them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, said he, ye heard from me:
--They were saved, and yet were commanded not to depart from Jerusalem but wait for the promise of the Father, which is the Holy Spirit. They had not received Him yet.
Acts 1:5 For John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized in the Holy Spirit not many days hence.
--They had not received this baptism of the Holy Spirit yet. They were to wait for it. It would only happen once in their lifetime.
Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, when the Holy Spirit is come upon you: and ye shall be my witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea and Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
--When it would come it would come with power. The power would be directly related to witnessing.
Acts 1:12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is nigh unto Jerusalem, a Sabbath day's journey off.
--Then they obeyed the Lord, went from the Mount of Olives where they were, and returned to Jerusalem. While they were there they conducted some important business, as the selection of Matthias as the 12th apostle in the place of Judas.
Then the Day of Pentecost came:
Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was now come, they were all together in one place.
--Various signs took place: cloven tongues of fire, a mighty rushing wind, and speaking in tongues or languages.
Acts 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
--This is what Jesus had been speaking about. They were filled with the Holy Spirit. They spoke with other languages. This was the miracle that they were able to speak in other known languages miraculously. The Holy Spirit gave them that ability to speak (utter) in other languages. These were languages that they could now understand, but formerly could not.
It was not chaos that gathered attention; it was other people speaking in known languages.
Acts 2:7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Verse 8 is important. Every man heard their own language. Various individuals were speaking in languages that were represented there. There is a list of them given--about 13 in all. Out of 120 disciples God had given them the ability to speak in these 13 language groups, and each one could pick out or hear their own language, or which one was speaking their own native tongue. But these people were simple Galileans.
This was a sign to the Jews. Tongues is always a sign to the Jews.
It was also a sign for the apostles, that what they said was from God. The Jews had to know that the very disciples that spoke these tongues (and the ones with them), were speaking God's message. It was ordained from God.
It got their attention.
From this point onward every believer that would come to Christ would be indwelt with the Holy Spirit. This is the significance of the Day of Pentecost. There would never be any "subsequent blessing" or baptism. It would happen here or at the day of salvation.
This attention to tongues then gave Peter the opportunity to preach:
Acts 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
Acts 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
It was a convicting sermon that spoke right to their hearts.
Out of approximately 100,000 that were present only 3,000 got saved. The rest of the Jews rejected Christ as their Messiah and continued to reject tongues as a sign. Eventually judgment came upon them in 70 A.D., and the sign of tongues ceased shortly after that.
Hebrews 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
These are the ones you ignore and assume that they are unsaved.
Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Romans 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
I believe the Scriptures over you. OT saints such as Abraham and David were saved individuals.
Christ was not the God of the dead, but of the living.
The Pharisees did not understand that: do you?
Mark 12:27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.
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You will probably not respond to this...but no where in scriptures does it say that the purpose of tongues was to preach the gospel!
I have never said that the manifestation of the Holy Spirit was confined to the four walls of the church building. YOu are confusing me with DHK!
Looks like the ones that responded admit that the disciples were saved before the Day of Pentecost. So they received the indwelling Holy Spirit at this time of their salvation, right? So why do you have so much trouble with the Baptism of the Holy Spirit being separate experience in our lives today?
My last point concerning the salvation of the disciples by the breath of God...
The Scriptural facts surrounding Resurrection Sunday all relate to salvation, and the Scriptural facts surrounding Pentecost all relate to spiritual empowerment.
MOst agree...even on this thread....that the disciples had two separate experiences of the Holy Spirit, first on Resurrection Sunday (or some say earilier) and then at Pentecost. This makes it easy to determine which view is more Scripturally accurate. As distasteful as this might be to some people, only the charismatic view (belief in the manifestation of the HOly Spirit today) of the baptism of the Holy Spirit fits all of the facts surrounding Resurrection Sunday and Pentecost. When I first saw that, I was totally against tongues and other charismatic views because of my doctrinal background. However, I realized to my shock that I needed to discard my strong anti-charismatic beliefs because I could not honestly and prayerfully find the Scriptural evidence to support them which would outweigh the evidence against them. (Why did I have these anti-charismatic beliefs in the first place? Because I had never really examined where I was absorbing my beliefs from. It is eye-opening to ask yourself, "Where did my beliefs come from?").
What I have seen so far is that the disciples received the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit at some point after they received the indwelling Holy Spirit at the moment of their salvation, which were two separate and distinct events with
The Scriptural facts surrounding Resurrection Sunday all relate to salvation, and the Scriptural facts surrounding Pentecost all relate to spiritual empowerment.
MOst agree...even on this thread....that the disciples had two separate experiences of the Holy Spirit, first on Resurrection Sunday (or some say earilier) and then at Pentecost. This makes it easy to determine which view is more Scripturally accurate. As distasteful as this might be to some people, only the charismatic view (belief in the manifestation of the HOly Spirit today) of the baptism of the Holy Spirit fits all of the facts surrounding Resurrection Sunday and Pentecost. When I first saw that, I was totally against tongues and other charismatic views because of my doctrinal background. However, I realized to my shock that I needed to discard my strong anti-charismatic beliefs because I could not honestly and prayerfully find the Scriptural evidence to support them which would outweigh the evidence against them. (Why did I have these anti-charismatic beliefs in the first place? Because I had never really examined where I was absorbing my beliefs from. It is eye-opening to ask yourself, "Where did my beliefs come from?").
What I have seen so far is that the disciples received the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit at some point after they received the indwelling Holy Spirit at the moment of their salvation, which were two separate and distinct events with
Charasmatics NEVER seem to answer this simple question!
Since MOST of the Charasmatic theolgy has a different jesus/Gospel, why would it be the Holy Spriit involved, why not it be satan?
They wewre 'saved' as the same way OT believers were, by god not remitting sins against them, but they did NOT havethe indwelling of the Spirit as we do today until pentacost, until he came to start the Church here on the earth!
You don't read my posts do you?
Read my post:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1961274&postcount=64
Then ask me again.
Why would satan heal people? Why would satan do anything good for anyone? HE is out to kill, steal and destroy! Looks like he is doing a good job of stealing peoples faith in the Word of God!
So are you saying that people can be born again without the Holy Spirit? You said earlier that the OT saints and the disciples were believers/born again...now you say they were not until the day of Pentecost. Which is it?
Baptism in the Holy Spirit AFTER Pentecost was separate experience..so that theory does not hold up to scriptures.
She has a point here brother DHK, you know I believe there was no such thing as born-again until after Jesus was glorified. However, even though I believe there was no Holy Spirit indwellement prior to Jesus' glorification (John 7:39) , I don't equate Pentacost with what is considered a seperate individual baptism of the Holy Spirit available today as Awaken believes. It was a one time special event which jumpstarted the gospel to a large audience of differing people groups who spoke different languages. The Apostles then continued on, having these special "power" gifts, which accompanied the gospel as a witness to the Truth. I am coming to believe though that individuals can experience moments in their lives when they have an overwhelming precence of the HS come upon them, do we want to call this a baptism of the HS? I suppose we could.
Indwelt by the Holy Spirit does not equal saved except in our generation.
Look at what Jesus said:
Matthew 11:7 And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind?
8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses.
9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.
10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
I said from the Day of Pentecost onward the Holy Spirit started to indwell believers or all that came to Christ. That does NOT void the salvation of all that went before that time, as the disciples, John, Abraham, and David.
And yet with all these glowing platitudes of John you would consider him unsaved because he didn't live to Pentecost where he could be indwelt with the Holy Spirit! Amazing!
In this dispensation, since Pentecost, those who come to Christ will be indwelt by the Spirit the moment they are saved.
No it wasn't. You cannot prove that theory from the epistles.
The Book of Acts is a history book, a book of transition of the church, not a book of doctrine. Take the epistles and try to prove the same thing; you can't do it.
The only baptism of the Spirit is that which takes place at salvation.
There is no "second blessing;" no subsequent baptism, etc.