Throughout their ministry the Apostles were "filled" with the Holy Spirit, which we should seek for every day. When they were filled with the Holy Spirit there was a special unction on their ministries. The filling of the Holy Spirit was always connected with evangelism.
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The breath of God...
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I never said that they were not saved! They believed on the complete work on the cross...Jesus paying for their sins just as we do. THey looked forward and we look back! Our faith in Jesus Christ complete work on the cross and resurrection.Indwelt by the Holy Spirit does not equal saved except in our generation.
Look at what Jesus said:
Matthew 11:7 And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind?
8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses.
9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.
10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
I said from the Day of Pentecost onward the Holy Spirit started to indwell believers or all that came to Christ. That does NOT void the salvation of all that went before that time, as the disciples, John, Abraham, and David.
And yet with all these glowing platitudes of John you would consider him unsaved because he didn't live to Pentecost where he could be indwelt with the Holy Spirit! Amazing!
I am saying if they were saved before the day of Pentecost...Pentecost was not about salvation..it was about the power of the Holy Spirit being poured out on the church.
So OT saints are not born again? THere is no Holy Spirit within?In this dispensation, since Pentecost, those who come to Christ will be indwelt by the Spirit the moment they are saved.
No it wasn't. You cannot prove that theory from the epistles.
The Book of Acts is a history book, a book of transition of the church, not a book of doctrine. Take the epistles and try to prove the same thing; you can't do it.
The only baptism of the Spirit is that which takes place at salvation.
There is no "second blessing;" no subsequent baptism, etc.
ONly in Acts do I find the Baptism in the Holy Spirit! So how can you prove something the other epistles do not cover. So you are wrong about the book of Acts.
...and I have shown over and over in Acts that it was separate..even after Pentecost.
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When do you believe that the Holy Spirit indwells believers?OK?
I do not understand what this means.
please define it
Baptism in the Holy Spirit in Acts is always described as coming upon people. Salvation the Holy Spirit is within/indwelt.
When do you believe that the Holy Spirit indwells believers?
Baptism in the Holy Spirit in Acts is always described as coming upon people. Salvation the Holy Spirit is within/indwelt.
Nothing I disagree with here.
In this dispensation, since Pentecost, those who come to Christ will be indwelt by the Spirit the moment they are saved.
That is not what I said is it?So OT saints are not born again? THere is no Holy Spirit within?
Over and over again I have quoted you Scripture proving to you that OT saints are born again, and you keep denying it.
Romans 4:3, 5,6 prove that both Abraham and David were justified by faith, and thus "born again."
Jesus had high praise for John the Baptist. He was saved, as were all of the apostles, save Judas Iscariot. This was all pre-cross. I keep repeating this, so why do you question me?
However, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit did not come until Pentecost. Since that time, those who trust in Christ are indwelt by the Holy Spirit; before that time they were not.
Example:
Psalms 51:12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
David, though he committed adultery and murder had salvation.
In a prayer of repentance he does not ask for the salvation that he knew he already had; he asks the Lord to restore the JOY of his salvation. He wanted that fellowship with the Lord back again. He had salvation. Repentance would bring fellowship and joy, just as it does in the NT.
Then he says "uphold me with thy free spirit." Perhaps a reference to the Holy Spirit is here.
He was saved.
If you confine your doctrine to one book you err.ONly in Acts do I find the Baptism in the Holy Spirit! So how can you prove something the other epistles do not cover. So you are wrong about the book of Acts.
...and I have shown over and over in Acts that it was separate..even after Pentecost.
Let's do that with another book.
Suppose I confine my doctrine to the Book of Judges.
I could derive from that book that the way to obtain a wife is to go to a dance, wait for my opportunity, see the woman of my choice, go and kidnap her, and force her to live with me.
Judges 21:23 And the children of Benjamin did so, and took them wives, according to their number, of them that danced, whom they caught: and they went and returned unto their inheritance, and repaired the cities, and dwelt in them.
--That is what they did in Israel at that time.
Does that make it right for me?
Is that how I should develop my doctrine and practice--using only one book? I can use the same excuse you do--But God inspired the Book of Judges too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What's wrong with you?? Isn't the Book of Judges in your Bible? Its not good enough for you? Blah, Blah, Blah!!
This is the argument that you use, when I challenge you to verify your arguments with another book other than the historical book of Acts. (Judges is historical as well).
But you can't do it. It isn't there. This "baptism" that you are looking for is not a valid doctrine. You are making it up. The only "baptism of the Spirit" is that which we receive when we are saved. There is no other subsequent baptism. You are just making this stuff up. You won't find it in the doctrinal epistles, will you?
Thomas Helwys
New Member
They wewre 'saved' as the same way OT believers were, by god not remitting sins against them, but they did NOT havethe indwelling of the Spirit as we do today until pentacost, until he came to start the Church here on the earth!
And that is what Charismatics can't grasp, thus their fatal error separating HS baptism from regeneration.
You did not answer the question...Nothing I disagree with here.
You don't get what I am asking! How can OT saints be born again without the indwelling Holy Spirit. That is the new birth!That is not what I said is it?
Over and over again I have quoted you Scripture proving to you that OT saints are born again, and you keep denying it.
What I understand from your post is...Romans 4:3, 5,6 prove that both Abraham and David were justified by faith, and thus "born again."
Jesus had high praise for John the Baptist. He was saved, as were all of the apostles, save Judas Iscariot. This was all pre-cross. I keep repeating this, so why do you question me?
However, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit did not come until Pentecost. Since that time, those who trust in Christ are indwelt by the Holy Spirit; before that time they were not.
You believe that the OT saints up until Pentecost are saved/born again..but the indwelling Holy Spirit is not in them, correct? How is this possible without the Holy Spirit?
That was a different dispensation! Lets stay within the same dispensation! What I am trying to understand is ...was the OT saints indwelled with the Holy Sprit?Example:
Psalms 51:12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
David, though he committed adultery and murder had salvation.
In a prayer of repentance he does not ask for the salvation that he knew he already had; he asks the Lord to restore the JOY of his salvation. He wanted that fellowship with the Lord back again. He had salvation. Repentance would bring fellowship and joy, just as it does in the NT.
Then he says "uphold me with thy free spirit." Perhaps a reference to the Holy Spirit is here.
He was saved.
If you confine your doctrine to one book you err.
Let's do that with another book.
Suppose I confine my doctrine to the Book of Judges.
I could derive from that book that the way to obtain a wife is to go to a dance, wait for my opportunity, see the woman of my choice, go and kidnap her, and force her to live with me.
You are comparing two different covenants...that does not work! OT and NT covenants are different! I am staying within the New Covenant to prove the doctrine of the Baptism in the HOly Spirit. Even though OT scriptures speaks of the coming of the Holy Spirit.This is the argument that you use, when I challenge you to verify your arguments with another book other than the historical book of Acts. (Judges is historical as well).
But you can't do it. It isn't there. This "baptism" that you are looking for is not a valid doctrine. You are making it up. The only "baptism of the Spirit" is that which we receive when we are saved. There is no other subsequent baptism. You are just making this stuff up. You won't find it in the doctrinal epistles, will you?
Thomas Helwys
New Member
You don't get what I am asking! How can OT saints be born again without the indwelling Holy Spirit. That is the new birth!
What I understand from your post is...
You believe that the OT saints up until Pentecost are saved/born again..but the indwelling Holy Spirit is not in them, correct? How is this possible without the Holy Spirit?
That was a different dispensation! Lets stay within the same dispensation! What I am trying to understand is ...was the OT saints indwelled with the Holy Sprit?
You are comparing two different covenants...that does not work! OT and NT covenants are different! I am staying within the New Covenant to prove the doctrine of the Baptism in the HOly Spirit. Even though OT scriptures speaks of the coming of the Holy Spirit.
And when are you going to do that? You cannot. I have already explained the two or three exceptional, transitional situations in which the giving of the Spirit was delayed, but you obviously will not accept the truth of the evidence. Instead, like most Charismatics, you ignore the the truth that since the time of the events described in Acts, when the Gospel was being preached and accepted outside Judaism, all people receive the HS baptism when they come to faith and are regenerated. No, you can't accept that clear truth but want to base an entire theology on a few select verses of scripture wrongly interpreted.
As I said, denominations have been founded on that erroneous view, making their members seek and strive after something they already have, and if the evidence is not forthcoming, making them second-class Christians and spiritually inferior and not fully a part of the tribe. I saw this happen to someone very close to me.
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I am under a pastor that believes that it all happens at once! YOu get all the Holy Spirit you are going to get at salvation. But He believes that with that ALL includes the manifestation of the Holy Spirit!And when are you going to do that? You cannot. I have already explained the two or three exceptional, transitional situations in which the giving of the Spirit was delayed, but you obviously will not accept the truth of the evidence. Instead, like most Charismatics, you ignore the the truth that since the time of the events described in Acts, when the Gospel was being preached and accepted outside Judaism, all people receive the HS baptism when they come to faith and are regenerated. No, you can't accept that clear truth but want to base an entire theology on a few select verses of scripture wrongly interpreted.
As I said, denominations have been founded on that erroneous view, making their members seek and strive after something they already have, and if the evidence is not forthcoming, making them second-class Christians and spiritually inferior and not fully a part of the tribe. I saw this happen to someone very close to me.
It does not make sense in Acts to show one way and then all of a sudden it changes! We are in the New Covenant! THe Church age! The same dispensation that was in ACTS! Everytime Baptism in Holy Spirit happens it is to believers!
THis one scipture proves everything you said is wrong...And when are you going to do that? You cannot. I have already explained the two or three exceptional, transitional situations in which the giving of the Spirit was delayed, but you obviously will not accept the truth of the evidence. Instead, like most Charismatics, you ignore the the truth that since the time of the events described in Acts, when the Gospel was being preached and accepted outside Judaism, all people receive the HS baptism when they come to faith and are regenerated. No, you can't accept that clear truth but want to base an entire theology on a few select verses of scripture wrongly interpreted.
"But when they believed Philip as he preached the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. ... When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit." (Acts 8:12-17)
Notice that Peter and John were not sent to Samaria until the apostles heard that the Samaritans had received salvation by believing the Gospel message which Philip had preached. When Peter and John arrived, they laid hands on the Samaritans and then the Holy Spirit came on the Samaritans. Therefore, some amount of time passed between the moment the Samaritans were saved and the moment they "received" the Holy Spirit. This brings up an interesting question. As we have seen, most Christian denominations teach that everyone automatically receives the indwelling Holy Spirit at the moment of salvation, so why does it appear as if the Samaritans did not automatically receive the Holy Spirit when they received salvation?
This passage says that the Holy Spirit had not yet "come upon" any of the Samaritans. Notice that this is the same wording which is used to describe the baptism of the Holy Spirit in all of the examples in Acts.
Why would anything change since the day of Penecost? It happened on the Day of Pentecost...it was poured out on believer? Most have already admitted that they were already believers. Every time it happened in Acts it was poured out to believers and in the above scripture it was after water baptism. Can it happen all at once? Yes! Does it happen separate too? Yes! The examples are in the Word!
The Holy Spirit came upon Jesus for power to carry out what he was called to do..this was not for salvation!!
"When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as he was praying, heaven was opened and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove." (Luke 3:21-22)
"You know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached-- how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him." (Acts 10:37-38)
"Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry." (Luke 3:23)
"Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit in the desert, where for forty days he was tempted by the devil." (Luke 4:1-2)
"When the devil had finished all this tempting, he left him until an opportune time. Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news about him spread through the whole countryside." (Luke 4:13-14)
First we are told that Jesus was baptized in water and then He received the Holy Spirit (not as a guarantee of His salvation, but for spiritual empowerment).
Thomas Helwys
New Member
I am under a pastor that believes that it all happens at once! YOu get all the Holy Spirit you are going to get at salvation. But He believes that with that ALL includes the manifestation of the Holy Spirit!
It does not make sense in Acts to show one way and then all of a sudden it changes! We are in the New Covenant! THe Church age! The same dispensation that was in ACTS! Everytime Baptism in Holy Spirit happens it is to believers!
Can't you understand that the instances we discussed were one-time, exceptional circumstances when the Gospel was transitioning out of its Jewish confines? Apparently not.
If you are asking about salvation, you are asking about the new birth.You don't get what I am asking! How can OT saints be born again without the indwelling Holy Spirit. That is the new birth!
If you are asking about the new birth you are asking about salvation.
You cannot make any false dichotomies here. They happen simultaneously.
Justification, another aspect, and perhaps a better aspect also happens at the same time. It also is salvation.
What does the OT say about justification?
In the OT:
Habakkuk 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
--The just shall live by faith. This verse is quoted twice more in the NT:
Once in Romans 1:17 and the other in Gal.3:11.
The just shall live by faith.
But in salvation:
Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
--Abraham, David, and the rest of us; we all are justified by faith, and that is how we are saved--by faith and faith alone.
One cannot divorce the different aspects of salvation one from another.
Salvation is the same throughout the entire Bible: salvation by faith.
Yes. Revelation is progressive. David knew more than Noah. Paul knew more than David. In each dispensation God works with individuals in different ways. God used Moses in a very special way. Moses went to heaven. In every possible way we must say that he was saved. Why would you imply that he was not? Just because the Holy Spirit did not indwell the believer at that time? That is nonsense. And that is not a negation of the new birth either. Perhaps a better picture of the new birth is being born into God's family, which Moses certainly was. He was a child of God, born into the family of God.What I understand from your post is...
You believe that the OT saints up until Pentecost are saved/born again..but the indwelling Holy Spirit is not in them, correct?
You cannot divorce salvation from the new birth.How is this possible without the Holy Spirit?
The Holy Spirit began to indwell believers at the time of Pentecost.That was a different dispensation! Lets stay within the same dispensation! What I am trying to understand is ...was the OT saints indwelled with the Holy Sprit?
That has no bearing on the salvation of OT saints.
OT saints were still saints. In the OT the Spirit came upon them at times.
But they still were saved. What difference does that make.
They were justified by faith even as we are justified by faith. That is salvation.
I am not a covenant theologian. The covenants are given to the Jews.You are comparing two different covenants...that does not work! OT and NT covenants are different! I am staying within the New Covenant to prove the doctrine of the Baptism in the HOly Spirit. Even though OT scriptures speaks of the coming of the Holy Spirit.
Salvation is the same both in OT and NT--justification by faith.
Baptism of the Holy Spirit happens at salvation.
See how simple it is.
Thomas Helwys
New Member
THis one scipture proves everything you said is wrong...
"But when they believed Philip as he preached the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. ... When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit." (Acts 8:12-17)
Notice that Peter and John were not sent to Samaria until the apostles heard that the Samaritans had received salvation by believing the Gospel message which Philip had preached. When Peter and John arrived, they laid hands on the Samaritans and then the Holy Spirit came on the Samaritans. Therefore, some amount of time passed between the moment the Samaritans were saved and the moment they "received" the Holy Spirit. This brings up an interesting question. As we have seen, most Christian denominations teach that everyone automatically receives the indwelling Holy Spirit at the moment of salvation, so why does it appear as if the Samaritans did not automatically receive the Holy Spirit when they received salvation?
This passage says that the Holy Spirit had not yet "come upon" any of the Samaritans. Notice that this is the same wording which is used to describe the baptism of the Holy Spirit in all of the examples in Acts.
Why would anything change since the day of Penecost? It happened on the Day of Pentecost...it was poured out on believer? Most have already admitted that they were already believers. Every time it happened in Acts it was poured out to believers and in the above scripture it was after water baptism. Can it happen all at once? Yes! Does it happen separate too? Yes! The examples are in the Word!
The Holy Spirit came upon Jesus for power to carry out what he was called to do..this was not for salvation!!
"When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as he was praying, heaven was opened and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove." (Luke 3:21-22)
"You know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached-- how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him." (Acts 10:37-38)
"Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry." (Luke 3:23)
"Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit in the desert, where for forty days he was tempted by the devil." (Luke 4:1-2)
"When the devil had finished all this tempting, he left him until an opportune time. Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news about him spread through the whole countryside." (Luke 4:13-14)
First we are told that Jesus was baptized in water and then He received the Holy Spirit (not as a guarantee of His salvation, but for spiritual empowerment).
That one scripture proves everything I said is right! I have already explained this to you. Now this is not meant as an insult, but I am seriously thinking there is something deficient in your comprehension ability. What don't you get about this being the first time the Gospel was taken to and accepted by non-Jews, and the giving of the HS was thus delayed until Peter and John could get to these Samaritans and witness firsthand that the Gospel was equally for non-Jews as it was for Jews? Can't you grasp that? This was not meant to be evidence that the HS baptism was always and for every believer to be delayed until sometime after conversion, being a second experience or blessing to be sought after. This was a one-time exceptional circumstance based on the Gospel being accepted for the first time by non-Jews. Don't you remember the story that Jesus told about the good Samaritan and the point of it? Jews hated Samaritans. God delayed giving the HS to them until Peter and John got there so they would have the PROOF in person, that the Gospel was for non-Jews. Why can't you get that through your head?
Since these few instances in this time of transition, every believer has received the HS baptism at the time of conversion/regeneration. In fact, in the entire NT, these two or three instances are the only time that it is mentioned that the HS was delayed. Each time, it was for a specific and exceptional reason; that's why it was specifically mentioned! Thus, the pentecostal/charismatic view which builds entire denominations on these exceptions is in grave error!
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I see the transition...by examples! Most of you do not want it repeated today! Well, sorry! They are! Many believers have been baptized in the Holy Spirit and walking in the Power that His Word says we can.Can't you understand that the instances we discussed were one-time, exceptional circumstances when the Gospel was transitioning out of its Jewish confines? Apparently not.
I do not believe like most...if you are not baptized in the Holy Spirit your not saved. I believe they are separate! Sometimes it happens at the same time..
As many have post on this thread..salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ! We can not call God our FAther without being born from above! We are told to ask our FATHER for the Holy Spirit. We first have to be his child!
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Thomas Helwys
New Member
If you are asking about salvation, you are asking about the new birth.
If you are asking about the new birth you are asking about salvation.
You cannot make any false dichotomies here. They happen simultaneously.
Justification, another aspect, and perhaps a better aspect also happens at the same time. It also is salvation.
What does the OT say about justification?
In the OT:
Habakkuk 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
--The just shall live by faith. This verse is quoted twice more in the NT:
Once in Romans 1:17 and the other in Gal.3:11.
The just shall live by faith.
But in salvation:
Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
--Abraham, David, and the rest of us; we all are justified by faith, and that is how we are saved--by faith and faith alone.
One cannot divorce the different aspects of salvation one from another.
Salvation is the same throughout the entire Bible: salvation by faith.
Yes. Revelation is progressive. David knew more than Noah. Paul knew more than David. In each dispensation God works with individuals in different ways. God used Moses in a very special way. Moses went to heaven. In every possible way we must say that he was saved. Why would you imply that he was not? Just because the Holy Spirit did not indwell the believer at that time? That is nonsense. And that is not a negation of the new birth either. Perhaps a better picture of the new birth is being born into God's family, which Moses certainly was. He was a child of God, born into the family of God.
You cannot divorce salvation from the new birth.
The Holy Spirit began to indwell believers at the time of Pentecost.
That has no bearing on the salvation of OT saints.
OT saints were still saints. In the OT the Spirit came upon them at times.
But they still were saved. What difference does that make.
They were justified by faith even as we are justified by faith. That is salvation.
I am not a covenant theologian. The covenants are given to the Jews.
Salvation is the same both in OT and NT--justification by faith.
Baptism of the Holy Spirit happens at salvation.
See how simple it is.
As I said, Pentecostals take a couple of verses which reflect one-time exceptional circumstances and build entire denominations on them, kind of like the snake handlers in the Appalachian mountains.
Do you even read my post? THat is what I said! They are the same!If you are asking about salvation, you are asking about the new birth.
If you are asking about the new birth you are asking about salvation.
You cannot make any false dichotomies here. They happen simultaneously.
I did not! I was just ask the question to understand where you stood! You keep reading into my post something that is not there!Justification, another aspect, and perhaps a better aspect also happens at the same time. It also is salvation.
What does the OT say about justification?
In the OT:
Habakkuk 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
--The just shall live by faith. This verse is quoted twice more in the NT:
Once in Romans 1:17 and the other in Gal.3:11.
The just shall live by faith.
But in salvation:
Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
--Abraham, David, and the rest of us; we all are justified by faith, and that is how we are saved--by faith and faith alone.
One cannot divorce the different aspects of salvation one from another.
Salvation is the same throughout the entire Bible: salvation by faith.
Yes. Revelation is progressive. David knew more than Noah. Paul knew more than David. In each dispensation God works with individuals in different ways. God used Moses in a very special way. Moses went to heaven. In every possible way we must say that he was saved. Why would you imply that he was not? Just because the Holy Spirit did not indwell the believer at that time? That is nonsense. And that is not a negation of the new birth either. Perhaps a better picture of the new birth is being born into God's family, which Moses certainly was. He was a child of God, born into the family of God.
You cannot divorce salvation from the new birth.
NO, I have shown where the Baptism is separate in Acts...The Holy Spirit began to indwell believers at the time of Pentecost.
That has no bearing on the salvation of OT saints.
OT saints were still saints. In the OT the Spirit came upon them at times.
But they still were saved. What difference does that make.
They were justified by faith even as we are justified by faith. That is salvation.
I am not a covenant theologian. The covenants are given to the Jews.
Salvation is the same both in OT and NT--justification by faith.
Baptism of the Holy Spirit happens at salvation.
See how simple it is.
Thomas Helwys
New Member
I see the transition...by examples! Most of you do want repeated today! Well, sorry! They are! Many believers have been baptized in the Holy Spirit and walking in the Power that His Word says we can.
I do not believe like most...if you are not baptized in the Holy Spirit your not saved. I believe they are separate! Sometimes it happens at the same time..
As many have post on this thread..salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ! We can not call God our FAther without being born from above! We are told to ask our FATHER for the Holy Spirit. We first have to be his child!
Your HS baptism separate from conversion/regeneration is a total fabrication. You may have received a new infilling, but believers are supposed to continually be filled and refilled by the HS. You may have been given additional gifts, but none of this is the baptism of the HS because you received that once and for all at conversion.
I comprehend...I just do not agree with YOUR interpretation of scriptures.That one scripture proves everything I said is right! I have already explained this to you. Now this is not meant as an insult, but I am seriously thinking there is something deficient in your comprehension ability.
Because of discernment! THe power of the Holy Spirit upon is a separate experience. I showed that even in the life of Jesus!What don't you get about this being the first time the Gospel was taken to and accepted by non-Jews, and the giving of the HS was thus delayed until Peter and John could get to these Samaritans and witness firsthand that the Gospel was equally for non-Jews as it was for Jews? Can't you grasp that? This was not meant to be evidence that the HS baptism was always and for every believer to be delayed until sometime after conversion, being a second experience or blessing to be sought after. This was a one-time exceptional circumstance based on the Gospel being accepted for the first time by non-Jews. Don't you remember the story that Jesus told about the good Samaritan and the point of it? Jews hated Samaritans. God delayed giving the HS to them until Peter and John got there so they would have the PROOF in person, that the Gospel was for non-Jews. Why can't you get that through your head?
It is a grave error to ignore what is plain in scripture!Since these few instances in this time of transition, every believer has received the HS baptism at the time of conversion/regeneration. In fact, in the entire NT, these two or three instances are the only time that it is mentioned that the HS was delayed. Each time, it was for a specific and exceptional reason; that's why it was specifically mentioned! Thus, the pentecostal/charismatic view which builds entire denominations on these exceptions is in grave error!
Well, scriptures teach it different! I do believe it can happen all at once! The Spirit within and the Spirit upon! Jesus had both too! He was conceived in Mary of the HOly Ghost...he was annointed by the Holy Spirit at His baptism! Two separate workings of the Same Holy Spirit! I showed scriptures to prove this! You only give your opinion of scriptures even if scriptures prove you wrong!Your HS baptism separate from conversion/regeneration is a total fabrication. You may have received a new infilling, but believers are supposed to continually be filled and refilled by the HS. You may have been given additional gifts, but none of this is the baptism of the HS because you received that once and for all at conversion.