Featured The breath of God...

Throughout their ministry the Apostles were "filled" with the Holy Spirit, which we should seek for every day. When they were filled with the Holy Spirit there was a special unction on their ministries. The filling of the Holy Spirit was always connected with evangelism.

 

Nothing I disagree with here.

 

That is not what I said is it?
Over and over again I have quoted you Scripture proving to you that OT saints are born again, and you keep denying it.
Romans 4:3, 5,6 prove that both Abraham and David were justified by faith, and thus "born again."
Jesus had high praise for John the Baptist. He was saved, as were all of the apostles, save Judas Iscariot. This was all pre-cross. I keep repeating this, so why do you question me?

However, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit did not come until Pentecost. Since that time, those who trust in Christ are indwelt by the Holy Spirit; before that time they were not.

Example:
Psalms 51:12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
David, though he committed adultery and murder had salvation.
In a prayer of repentance he does not ask for the salvation that he knew he already had; he asks the Lord to restore the JOY of his salvation. He wanted that fellowship with the Lord back again. He had salvation. Repentance would bring fellowship and joy, just as it does in the NT.

Then he says "uphold me with thy free spirit." Perhaps a reference to the Holy Spirit is here.
He was saved.

If you confine your doctrine to one book you err.
Let's do that with another book.
Suppose I confine my doctrine to the Book of Judges.
I could derive from that book that the way to obtain a wife is to go to a dance, wait for my opportunity, see the woman of my choice, go and kidnap her, and force her to live with me.

Judges 21:23 And the children of Benjamin did so, and took them wives, according to their number, of them that danced, whom they caught: and they went and returned unto their inheritance, and repaired the cities, and dwelt in them.
--That is what they did in Israel at that time.
Does that make it right for me?
Is that how I should develop my doctrine and practice--using only one book? I can use the same excuse you do--But God inspired the Book of Judges too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What's wrong with you?? Isn't the Book of Judges in your Bible? Its not good enough for you? Blah, Blah, Blah!!

This is the argument that you use, when I challenge you to verify your arguments with another book other than the historical book of Acts. (Judges is historical as well).
But you can't do it. It isn't there. This "baptism" that you are looking for is not a valid doctrine. You are making it up. The only "baptism of the Spirit" is that which we receive when we are saved. There is no other subsequent baptism. You are just making this stuff up. You won't find it in the doctrinal epistles, will you?

 

And that is what Charismatics can't grasp, thus their fatal error separating HS baptism from regeneration.

 

And when are you going to do that? You cannot. I have already explained the two or three exceptional, transitional situations in which the giving of the Spirit was delayed, but you obviously will not accept the truth of the evidence. Instead, like most Charismatics, you ignore the the truth that since the time of the events described in Acts, when the Gospel was being preached and accepted outside Judaism, all people receive the HS baptism when they come to faith and are regenerated. No, you can't accept that clear truth but want to base an entire theology on a few select verses of scripture wrongly interpreted.

As I said, denominations have been founded on that erroneous view, making their members seek and strive after something they already have, and if the evidence is not forthcoming, making them second-class Christians and spiritually inferior and not fully a part of the tribe. I saw this happen to someone very close to me.

 

Can't you understand that the instances we discussed were one-time, exceptional circumstances when the Gospel was transitioning out of its Jewish confines? Apparently not.

 

If you are asking about salvation, you are asking about the new birth.
If you are asking about the new birth you are asking about salvation.
You cannot make any false dichotomies here. They happen simultaneously.

Justification, another aspect, and perhaps a better aspect also happens at the same time. It also is salvation.
What does the OT say about justification?
In the OT:
Habakkuk 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
--The just shall live by faith. This verse is quoted twice more in the NT:
Once in Romans 1:17 and the other in Gal.3:11.
The just shall live by faith.
But in salvation:
Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
--Abraham, David, and the rest of us; we all are justified by faith, and that is how we are saved--by faith and faith alone.
One cannot divorce the different aspects of salvation one from another.
Salvation is the same throughout the entire Bible: salvation by faith.

Yes. Revelation is progressive. David knew more than Noah. Paul knew more than David. In each dispensation God works with individuals in different ways. God used Moses in a very special way. Moses went to heaven. In every possible way we must say that he was saved. Why would you imply that he was not? Just because the Holy Spirit did not indwell the believer at that time? That is nonsense. And that is not a negation of the new birth either. Perhaps a better picture of the new birth is being born into God's family, which Moses certainly was. He was a child of God, born into the family of God.

You cannot divorce salvation from the new birth.

The Holy Spirit began to indwell believers at the time of Pentecost.
That has no bearing on the salvation of OT saints.
OT saints were still saints. In the OT the Spirit came upon them at times.
But they still were saved. What difference does that make.
They were justified by faith even as we are justified by faith. That is salvation.

I am not a covenant theologian. The covenants are given to the Jews.
Salvation is the same both in OT and NT--justification by faith.
Baptism of the Holy Spirit happens at salvation.
See how simple it is.

 

That one scripture proves everything I said is right! I have already explained this to you. Now this is not meant as an insult, but I am seriously thinking there is something deficient in your comprehension ability. What don't you get about this being the first time the Gospel was taken to and accepted by non-Jews, and the giving of the HS was thus delayed until Peter and John could get to these Samaritans and witness firsthand that the Gospel was equally for non-Jews as it was for Jews? Can't you grasp that? This was not meant to be evidence that the HS baptism was always and for every believer to be delayed until sometime after conversion, being a second experience or blessing to be sought after. This was a one-time exceptional circumstance based on the Gospel being accepted for the first time by non-Jews. Don't you remember the story that Jesus told about the good Samaritan and the point of it? Jews hated Samaritans. God delayed giving the HS to them until Peter and John got there so they would have the PROOF in person, that the Gospel was for non-Jews. Why can't you get that through your head?

Since these few instances in this time of transition, every believer has received the HS baptism at the time of conversion/regeneration. In fact, in the entire NT, these two or three instances are the only time that it is mentioned that the HS was delayed. Each time, it was for a specific and exceptional reason; that's why it was specifically mentioned! Thus, the pentecostal/charismatic view which builds entire denominations on these exceptions is in grave error!

 

As I said, Pentecostals take a couple of verses which reflect one-time exceptional circumstances and build entire denominations on them, kind of like the snake handlers in the Appalachian mountains.

 

Your HS baptism separate from conversion/regeneration is a total fabrication. You may have received a new infilling, but believers are supposed to continually be filled and refilled by the HS. You may have been given additional gifts, but none of this is the baptism of the HS because you received that once and for all at conversion.