Thomas Helwys
New Member
Then stop doing it.
I have explained several times the exceptions. Those are the facts. All believers receive the HS baptism when they believe, not later and not after they have to seek it. That is false doctrine.
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Then stop doing it.
I have explained several times the exceptions. Those are the facts. All believers receive the HS baptism when they believe, not later and not after they have to seek it. That is false doctrine.
Well, NOWHERE in sciptures does it tell us to handle snakes! But it does show how the Holy Spirit was received, both in and upon!
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Thomas Helwys
New Member
I gave the facts of the unusual, one-time, exceptional circumstances that are the scriptural truth that you are either too dimwitted or obstinate to accept; thus, you are unteachable.
AGAIN....THe facts you claim are your interpretation! Not what is plain in scripture! Seek and you will find! I asked just like scriptures teach us to do! Ask the Father for the Holy Spirit! He first has to be your father/born again/indwelt before you ask for the Holy Spirit/upon/power.
Then why do you keep ignoring it?
Silly! I could turn that around and say the same for you..but that would not settle this! You have not proven anything about it being a one time event! Does it say it only happens one time this way and we will change it for everyone else? No, it does not! So you are making an assumption! The examples are for our teaching.
Thomas Helwys
New Member
Facts are facts. Each instance of the HS being delayed was a special, one-time exceptional circumstance with the reasons being easily understood by anyone willing to do so. You are not. No believer has to ask for the HS. Every believer is baptized by the HS and receives the HS upon coming to faith. It is not a later, separated, second blessing. That is false doctrine.
Are you suggesting that Thomas is not born again, and that God the Father is not his Father?
Thomas Helwys
New Member
There was a first time that the Gospel was received by non-Jews. This was a one-time, exceptional circumstance. Your willful ignorance and stubbornness is going to get you into trouble. Mark my words on this and when it happens, remember what I said. I have seen it happen to many people.
Thomas Helwys
New Member
If I ever post a theory, I'll let you know.
Thomas Helwys
New Member
"Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!" (Luke 11:11-13)
If you are a Christian, a child of God, then you can ask your Father for the Holy Spirit. First you must be saved (at which point God becomes your heavenly Father - see John 1:12-13, Galatians 3:26, and 4:4-7), then you can ask for the Holy Spirit. When we become saved we automatically receive the indwelling Holy Spirit, we don't have to ask for Him! Yet Jesus says that God will give the gift of the Holy Spirit to those who ask for it. This gift, therefore, is not salvation (because we do not become saved by asking God for the Holy Spirit), but instead this gift is what the Bible calls the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit for receiving spiritual empowerment:
Some years ago, I dared to tell a Charismatic that I didn't believe tongues was of God, nor would I ever attempt to speak in them. He became very angry, and then tried to cast a demon out of me! :laugh:
Thomas Helwys
New Member
I have had a lot of experience with the Pentecostal/Charismatic churches, through my studies and also personal experience.
They take a couple of exceptional circumstances and try to make these the norm for every Christian believer, making people believe they are lacking in something, making them uncertain, making them second-class Christians and inferior. They build entire denominations and yes, cults, on these exceptional circumstances. Just look at all the varieties of this movement, all claiming their doctrines and practices are inspire by the Holy Spirit! Anybody who can't recognize that movements like the Brownsville assembly are Satanic, cultic nutcases needs to have his/her head examined.
They take a couple of exceptional circumstances and try to make these the norm for every Christian believer, making people believe they are lacking in something, making them uncertain, making them second-class Christians and inferior. They build entire denominations and yes, cults, on these exceptional circumstances. Just look at all the varieties of this movement, all claiming their doctrines and practices are inspire by the Holy Spirit! Anybody who can't recognize that movements like the Brownsville assembly are Satanic, cultic nutcases needs to have his/her head examined.
THis is where I differ! I do not believe that!
We can recognize Jesus' true disciples by their "fruit." These are the things that we are told to look for as evidence that a person has received salvation. The Bible never tells us to look for supernatural manifestations as evidence of anyone's salvation.
Thomas Helwys
New Member
At first I thought you were speaking directly to him, and you still might have been. But I re-read your post and you may have been using an "impersonal you." I can't tell. Maybe you can clarify that.
If Thomas is a Christian....
First he must be saved...
I have never made a claim of anyone being second class!