Which one was saved, the one taken or the one left?

[Brother Bob]

Second question: Where does the word "saved" occur in the passage you cited in the OP or in Luke's relating of the same message?
Ed

Saved= a : to deliver from sin b : to rescue or deliver from danger or harm c : to preserve or guard from injury, destruction, or loss

The ark certainly preserved Noah from the flood. Hope this answers your question.

Ready

 

[Brother Bob]

I must admit, I do have to look up some of your words.

 

[Brother Bob]

So ED:
Being that I know what your next comment is going to be.

7": And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

"8": But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
"8": For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

"9": Not of works, lest any man should boast.

"10": For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

So we find that Noah found grace of the Lord himself and by Grace are ye saved.

 

[EdSutton]

Sorry, wrong guess! Or at least I think it is the wrong guess. The bold faced conclusion may or may not be correct, we'll see. But thanks for all the definitions. Try again. Don't get sidetracked on this one, please, for I am not going down the BB detour, here, but what version or versions are you citing for Matthew 24:37-41, and whoever cited Luke 17:34-37?
Ed

 

[Brother Bob]

KJV
Matt: 24: 38-41
Genesis 6: 7-8

It is not a guess, sorry it is just the scripture Ed I have nothing else to go on except to ask of God. And I don't quote Luke or at least I don't think I did. but here is the quote of Luke:
31": In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

"32": Remember Lot's wife.

"33": Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

"34": I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

"35": Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

"36": Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Seems if Lots wife had of believed completely and stayed with Lot she would of been saved and same is true with those lost in the flood if they had of believed Noah and followed him they too would of been saved or not destroyed by the flood. Once again, I am sure the ones lost in the flood were taken before the ark even begin to raise.
Why would you say it is a guess? Are you reading something besides the KJV. Are you trying to trip me up, if so, I don't mind. It causes me to do more studying and so far I have found nothing to cause me to change my mind. Ed, it would be so much easier to preach that the ones taken were the ones saved from destrucion for it sounds so "good" I used to preach it just the opposite, for too think of the ones taken as "being taken to Heaven" sends a good feeling message but it is not what the Lord was saying in these parables.

Do you remember the Death Angel that came through and if the blood was not applied to the post he took the male child. Well, when the Lord come if you don't have his blood applied to your soul you will be taken also.

[ March 16, 2006, 09:57 AM: Message edited by: Brother Bob ]

 

[Ed Edwards]

Brother Brother Bob: //I think I have you figured out. You sit back and wait until
everyone has posted and then you research to find particular
scriptures to support any negative veiw about the subject and then you post.//

Ah, you make an 'A' in physical education

You have jumped to more conclusions than anybody else.

But have to give an 'F' in tact and and 'F' in CSIing techniques.

Can't you see i've been here on BB since Aug 2002. This was
just three months before I got kicked off RAPTURE READY.
I've been discussion eschatology on BUlletin boards since June 1984
(that is three months less than 22 Years. Some people say "but Ed,
the internet isn't THAT OLD" to which I say: 'I said BBs
not Internet, i've been almost 22 years arguing eschatology on
Bulletin Boards (bbs). Needless to say, I've already argued every
point of eschatology that can be argued MULTIPLE TIMES.
The ol' "who gets LEFT BEHIND" argument comes up 6-7 times a
year (about every two months).

Mel Miller: //I notice a Pre-Tribber criticizes you for finding
the Rapture in Matt.24:31!! Amazing!!//

Proves what i've been telling others.
I am a Baptist believer in PRiesthood of the Believer and
Soul SUfficiency. I dug my own Eschatology out of the
Bible under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
It is like nobody else's eschatology. Generally it is
pre-trbulation rapture, pre-millinnial SC = second Coming of Jesus;
but it isn't from Darby and it ain't Millerism, and it isn't
from LeHaye. BTW, Even DeafPosttrib noted that most Pretribbers
beleive Matthew is for Jews and Matthew 24:31 is about the
post-tribulation gathering NOT the pre-tribulation gathering.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Sorry Brother Brother Bob, but I'm in several ongoing
conversations about Security of the Believer.
I will continue to preach eternal salvation
starts at the moment Jesus first saves us
and has no end. (so don't anybody
use phrases like
'you can't know you are saved until the end')

Let me tell a story from the early 4th century,
maybe 308. The rival emperor Docilian (sp?)
authorized killing of those who would not
burn a bit of incense. So his private police
force would round up some suspected Christians.
The REAL Christians would not worship this
man. But some in the group did put in incense
and praise the rival emperor. They were
all put to death: the Christians for not
worshiping the rival emperor, the others
for hanging out with Christians.

 

[Brother Bob]

After much closer exam of the BB forum I see you have your hands full Ed, so carry on. About 60/40 split on the belief of who was saved, with the 60 on "taken away are the lost". 6 or 7 times a year? I been here almost a year and first time I have seen the subject. If it was 6 times a year I should of seen it 6 times already but must of missed it. Oh well, at least you haven't convinced 60%.
(Peace)

Oh, by the way, I also believe that when you are saved it is forever if that is what you said. I really have a hard time understanding you at times.

 

[Brother Bob]

You gave me an F in tact, but I got you talking nicer, I think I got an A. You will have to explain CSIing techniques, maybe I got an A there too.

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by Mel Miller:
Me4Him,

You have two different "days" in mind in your
quote. Jesus has only ONE Day, the Day He is revealed to destroy all the wicked and to gather the elect from earth to heaven AFTER THE GREAT
TRIBULATION. Mark 13:24-27; Matt.24:29-31; Luke
17:27-30.

Your Quote: _______________________________________________
"In the rapture, (day of Christ) "Jesus reaps" the "saved" from the earth, the "unsaved" remain behind for the trib.

"When Jesus returns, Day of the Lord, the "angel reaper" gather the "unsaved" and cast them into hell, the "Saved" remain behind for the MK".
_______________________________________________

There is nothing in the context of Matt.24:29-37
or in Luke 17:29-37 that refers to being LEFT
on the earth to go thru the tribulation.

This is the way Dispies distort the truth of
who is TAKEN and who is LEFT when Christ comes
in glory WITH ALL THE SAINTS.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

Jews wouldn't "listen" to Jesus's "Voice" when he was "physically" talking to them, and two thousand years later, they still won't listen to "his voice", the "Holy Ghost",

So what is going to make them "change their mind", all of the sudden???

And why are they "Blind" until the "fulness of the Gentiles" or Church age is over???

Interpret the following verse correctly and you'll understand.

Jas 3:12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh. (at/in the same time frame)

OT/God/Israel/fig tree
NT/Jesus/church/vine/fountain/fresh water
Trib/God/Israel/figs/salt water
MK/God/Israel/Jesus/church


The "TRINITY" explains the scriptures.

 

[EdSutton]

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
KJV
Matt: 24: 38-41
Genesis 6: 7-8

It is not a guess, sorry it is just the scripture Ed I have nothing else to go on except to ask of God. And I don't quote Luke or at least I don't think I did. but here is the quote of Luke:
31": In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

"32": Remember Lot's wife.

"33": Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

"34": I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

"35": Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

"36": Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Seems if Lots wife had of believed completely and stayed with Lot she would of been saved and same is true with those lost in the flood if they had of believed Noah and followed him they too would of been saved or not destroyed by the flood. Once again, I am sure the ones lost in the flood were taken before the ark even begin to raise.
Why would you say it is a guess? Are you reading something besides the KJV. Are you trying to trip me up, if so, I don't mind. It causes me to do more studying and so far I have found nothing to cause me to change my mind. Ed, it would be so much easier to preach that the ones taken were the ones saved from destrucion for it sounds so "good" I used to preach it just the opposite, for too think of the ones taken as "being taken to Heaven" sends a good feeling message but it is not what the Lord was saying in these parables.

Do you remember the Death Angel that came through and if the blood was not applied to the post he took the male child. Well, when the Lord come if you don't have his blood applied to your soul you will be taken also.

(Edward, Sir. Why did I find your post amusing, here? Read on to find out!)

The "guess" had to do with your own apparent "gift of knowledge" as to what my next question or point was going to be. Perhaps that particular "gift" could use just a wee bit of stirring up, for the fourth question is, regardless of - Well let's run over them again.

Comment #1. "Define saved." You did not actually 'define it' but gave two examples. Not exactly what I was looking for, but OK.

Question #2. "Where does the word "saved" occur in Matt. 24:38-41, which you cited, and Luke 17:34-37 (which eloidalmanutha actually cited)?" Your answer was actually here some definitions and an illustration cited of Noah.

Sorry! Wrong answer! The word "saved" does not occur in either passage.

Question #3. "What version or versions are you using, here?" You responded, "KJV" Good answer. Athough most any 'major' version, that I happen to be familiar with cited, would be a good answer.

Question #4. Despite your jumping to a conclusion, as EdEdSr mentioned, as you jumped into a one sentence, although in two-parts, sermonette on Noah and salvation by faith, and notwithstanding, I love you, too., as well, question four is "How do you manage to read "saved" into the passage at all?' Especially, when it is not found in the text, at all. This is interpretation, not statement from Scripture that either are "saved", for perhaps, that is not what the verses are speaking of in the first place.
In His grace,
Ed

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Salvation is eternal. No matter what anybody says,
assume nothing. Check it up in your Bible. It is
very easy to be misled if you do not know your Bible
enough to refute the false prophet and the nonsense
doctrines that he tries sell to others.

 

[Brother Bob]

Ed Sutton:
At least 99+% know what I meant by saved and lost or at least by ther responses they tell me so, both, those who agree with me and those who do not. Only you don't seem to catch on. Oh, I think you do but this is your way of trying to say something, but it has no meaning. I find it tiresome to try and find an answer that would satisfy you. You can kick a dead horse all you want but it won't get up.

7": And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

"8": But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

Once again I give you what I mean by "saved" even though the word don't appear, the actual happening does.


Titus, chapter 2

"1": But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine

If this don't satisfy you then you will have to try and figure out what saved is yourself. Seems to me to be spared from total destruction ( is being saved from total destruction).

 

[Brother Bob]

Ed Sutton:
I think I know what you are saying about "maybe no one was saved". I am sure you will agree that naturally so, Noah was saved from being destroyed and How many times does the Lord use natural things to teach us spiritual. No, the word does not appear in these scriptures but that is why the Bible is the most read and lasted the longest of any books ever written because of the hidden meaning of many parts of it. Maybe you are taking it to literally?

1 Corinthians, chapter 2

7": But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

"8": Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

"9": But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

"10": But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.


Luke, chapter 8

"9": And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be?

"10": And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

Maybe you have a ways to go yet Ed?

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
I've been discussion eschatology on BUlletin boards since June 1984
(that is three months less than 22 Years. Some people say "but Ed,
the internet isn't THAT OLD" to which I say: 'I said BBs
not Internet, i've been almost 22 years arguing eschatology on
Bulletin Boards (bbs).

And you have been wrong for 22 years!

 

[Ed Edwards]

Brother Brother Bob: //You will have to explain CSIing techniques,
maybe I got an A there too.//

CSI = Crime Scene Investigation, you knew, the hot TV
multi-series: The original CSI Los Vagas, CSI Miami, CSI New York,
NCSI (Naval CSI), etc. It was a humor

Brother Brother Bob: //I really have
a hard time understanding you at times.//

Sorry, I'll type slower

Brother Brother Bob: //You gave me an F in tact,
but I got you talking nicer,//

So, you have an 'A' in goal accomplishment.

Brother Brother Bob: //Oh, by the way, I also believe that
when you are saved it is forever if that is what you said.//

Very good. You know, of course, that I actually 'test the spirits'.
You passed. People who get all bent out of shape when somebody who
has no right to do so gives them an 'F' - they miss out on
at least two different levels.

Reminds me back in 92 when I was talking to this fellow who thought
he was 'bout as good as God. He figured that he really knew his Bible,
but he didn't have a clue. I'd quote the Bible, but put it in my
own words (not King James English) and not give the addy of the quote:
Version, Book, chapter, nor verse. So If he didn't like it, he would
argue with it. Everybody but him knew the Bible and realized he was
arguing against what the Bible says - he was clueless.

As for Luke whatever:33:
"33": Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it;
and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

Is a play on eternal and temporal:

Whosoever shall seek to save his life (temporal)
shall lose it (eternal); and whosoever shall lose his
life (temporal) shall preserve it (eternal).

While 'salvation' and 'saved' can refer to both the eternal
and temporal, obviously the eternal is most important.
So you can be unsaved to the temporal yet saved to the eternal

 

[Brother Bob]

Brother Ed:
Thanks and I am not one of those who knows it all. I only know in part and see through a glass darkly. I think its going to be a good day Brother Ed.

Oh, by the way, I don't watch much TV except I am a news nut.

 

[JackRUS]

My late vote is the one left gets saved upon Christ's return if he/she is not already saved.

Luke is plain in that the one's taken are killed and fed to the birds. This is also described in Rev. 19:17-21.

This is why in Daniel 12:11-12 it says that:

"And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a
thousand two hundred and ninety days.
Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days."

Because he/she (and this refers to the Jews) has been left to go into the Millennium where as described in Zech. 12:10 all the remaining remnant of Jews left will look on Him who they did pierce and know that Jesus is both Lord and their Messiah.

The remaining Gentiles will be judged according to what's written in Mt. 25 concerning the sheep and the goats to see if they get to go into the Millennium.

Of course any Jews that take the mark of the Beast will be taken with the rest and eaten by the birds.

 

[EdSutton]

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
Ed Sutton:
I think I know what you are saying about "maybe no one was saved". I am sure you will agree that naturally so, Noah was saved from being destroyed and How many times does the Lord use natural things to teach us spiritual. No, the word does not appear in these scriptures but that is why the Bible is the most read and lasted the longest of any books ever written because of the hidden meaning of many parts of it. Maybe you are taking it to ( sic )literally?

1 Corinthians, chapter 2

7": But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

"8": Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

"9": But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

"10": But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.


Luke, chapter 8

"9": And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be?

"10": And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

Maybe you have a ways to go yet Ed?

On this we agree, at least.
Like Paul, I count not myself to have arrived...

However that has little to do ith my questions. I do thank you for mentioning parables. And I seem to recall you or someone referring to Matt. 24:38-41 as a parable. I suggest differently. The parable is that of the fig tree, found in verses 32-35, with accompanying exposition. I see this as a simile and as an illustration. The change comes with the words, but and also, and IMO, refers to the manner of His coming. Verses 40-42 refer to the time, and what happens. The ones taken are taken to what? Heaven? Could be. Need to know more. In the 'rapture'of the church? Nope! We do not yet know there is going to be any 'rapture of the church'. In fact, we do not even know much about ANY church, except that Jesus is going to build "My church." So the church is not particularly in view here. What is in view is the fourfold "division' that has just been presented; that of "travail", tribulation, great tribulation, and "after the tribulation". And one of the things to happen "immediately after the tribulation" is the coming of the "Son of Man" where he sends forth His angels and they gather His elect. So in this pasage, His elect are the one's gathered in this context, for this purpose. Are they the church? No! Therefore this cannot be referring to the rapture of the church. Thes are trib. saints, as we shall see.
This is who they are referring to, IMO. They are "the saved", hence they are the ones taken. The point I was trying to make, with my questions earlier is that it is not because they are taken, that they are saved; rather they are 'taken', because they are already saved. Repeating:

"Maybe you have a ways to go yet Ed? "

I've already agreed to this. Care to join me on the trip?

Ed

 

[Brother Bob]

Hi Ed:
I am already on the way but thanks anyway. You have too many divisions of people to suit me or be accurate according to the word. There will be two groups, those on the left and those on the right. Don't make it so complicated the masses don't know what you are saying. You must reach the masses to fullfill your "being sent".

Bob and I have enjoyed