Who are the Arminians?

[Iconoclast]

Where have I ever remotely alluded to the fact there are no standards to be agreed on? You have stated yourself you do not agree to everything in the 1689...so what point are you making?

Webdog,

What standard do you agree on in your local church? many were saying they abide by no standard.....so then they say bible only,Jesus only, or they were avoiding comment on it as if a church could function without a Confession, or creed. Did you read the whole thread? or jump in late?
That is correct that I have stated I take exception to one or two points in the 1689. Most confessional churches allow for open dialog on certain points of difference.....they do not want to bind someones conscience.
If I am to be a member, I have to be able to explain where I differ,based on what verses of scripture I see that does not match what I see in the question.
The point being.....if anyone takes local church seriously....if we are to contend for THE FAITH.....once for all delivered to the saints jude3
we have to be in substantial agreement to form a local assembly.

To naively say as some have {intentionally, or unintentionally} that we need no confession or creed is disaster waiting to happen. Do you agree?

In other words.....the bible is supreme...but what does the bible say?

Is the scripture complete?
Who is qualified to be an elder?
who can be baptized?
what does baptism signify?
can we sprinkle or pour?
Can open sodomites be members?
can we be saved by something we do?
how about our sanctifcation?
must we believe in a literal return of Jesus?
do we have to agree on end times?

there are many other areas....how do we know when someone is departing from the faith?
how do we know if someone is going against the local church?

These issues have been discussed and violently disagreed upon here in the bb in the last month alone....how could a local church realistically function without defining these issues up front?

Thats what is being discussed here. What would your response be ..about a church statement of faith, church covenant, confession, or creed?

 

[convicted1]

The five points of Arminianism:

1. Free-Will or Human Ability

Although human nature was seriously affected by the fall, man has not been left in a state of total spiritual helplessness. God graciously enables every sinner to repent and believe, but He does not interfere with man's freedom. Each sinner posses a free will, and his eternal destiny depends on how he uses it. Man's freedom consists of his ability to choose good over evil in spiritual matters; his will is not enslaved to his sinful nature. The sinner has the power to either cooperate with God's Spirit and be regenerated or resist God's grace and perish. The lost sinner needs the Spirit's assistance, but he does not have to be regenerated by the Spirit before he can believe, for faith is man's act and precedes the new birth. Faith is the sinner's gift From God; it is man's contribution to salvation.

I agree with this assessment. After I changed the word "to" to "from". Faith is the sinner's gift from God, not "to" God.


2. Conditional Election

God's choice of certain individuals unto salvation before the foundation of the world was based upon His foreseeing that they would respond to His call. He selected only those whom He knew would of themselves freely believe the gospel. Election therefore was determined by or conditioned upon what man would do.The faith which God foresaw and upon which He based His choice was not given to the sinner by God (it was not created by the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit) but resulted solely from man's will. It was left entirely up to man as to who would believe and therefore as to who would be elected unto salvation. God chose those whom He knew would, of their own free will, choose Christ. Thus the sinner's choice of Christ, not God's choice of the sinner, is the ultimate cause of salvation.

Ugh!!! I don't agree with this. Especially what I bolded.

3. Universal Redemption or General Atonement

Christ's redeeming work made it possible for everyone to be saved but did not actually secure the salvation of anyone. Although Christ died for all men and for every man, only those who believe on Him are saved. His death enabled God to pardon sinners on the condition that they believe, but it did not actually put away anyone's sins. Christ's redemption becomes effective only if man chooses to accept it.

I think I agree with this? Maybe it could have been worded better. Jesus' death atoned for every sin that every sinner had, has, and will commit. Only those who choose to believe in Him will be saved. You know, He is a Saviour of the whole world, but a special Saviour to the believer.

4. The Holy Spirit Can Be Effectually Resisted

The Spirit calls inwardly all those who are called outwardly by the gospel invitation; He does all that He can to bring every sinner to salvation. But inasmuch as man is free, he can successfully resist the Spirit's call. The Spirit cannot regenerate the sinner until he believes; faith (which is man's contribution) proceeds and makes possible the new birth. Thus, man's free will limits the Spirit in the application of Christ's saving work. The Holy Spirit can only draw to Christ those who allow Him to have His way with them. Until the sinner responds, the Spirit cannot give life. God's grace, therefore, is not invincible; it can be, and often is, resisted and thwarted by man.

I agree that the call be resisted. However, stating that faith is man's contribution is worded badly. Now, if it meant that its man's contribution after God gives him this gift, then yes, I agree. But, to state that man has faith by himself, without it coming from God, is very eggregious(sp?).

5. Falling from Grace

Those who believe and are truly saved can lose their salvation by failing to keep up their faith, etc.

UGH!!! Need I say more about how I feel about this?


So, I am at the most, a three point "Arm".