He fulfilled it, as he stated he would, was jesus a liar than?
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Who changed the sabbath?
- Thread starter Jason1
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Did you even read this:
Mat 5:17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Torah or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to complete.
Mat 5:18 “For truly, I say to you, till the heaven and the earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall by no means pass from the Torah till all be done.
Mat 5:19 “Whoever, then, breaks one of the least of these commands, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the reign of the heavens; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the reign of the heavens.
You gotta read more than 1 verse. Fulfilled does not mean to end.
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BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Your appeal to "you" in that post as your source and proof... noted. IT is a sweeping assertion not an actual Bible detail.
Until you read it.
In Heb 4 "there REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God"
in Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"
in Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath MADE FOR MANKIND"
in Acts 18:4 "EVERY Sabbath - BOTH Jews and gentiles gathered for Gospel preaching in the synagogues"
in Acts 15 "Moses is heard EVERY Sabbath in the synagogues"
in John 14:15 "if you Love Me KEEP My Commandments"
in Eph 6:;2 the UNIT to TEN - REMAINs with the 5th comandment as the "First commandment" in that still valid unit of Ten "With a promise"
in Mark 7:56-13 the UNIT of TEN remains as the "Commandment of God" and the "Word of God" according to Christ Himself.
in Hebrews 8:6-10 the NEW Covenant with the "LAW of God written on the heart" as given by Christ at Sinai.
in 1 John 5:2-3 "this IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments"
Rev 14:7 the Sabbath commandment is quoted from directly.
By contrast - well accepted Commandments not quoted from at all in the NT - for example the commandment to not take God's name in vain - and still they are to be honored and obeyed -- no matter that they are not quoted from at all.
By contrast - to "the seventh day is the Sabbath" and to "Sabbath is made for mankind" and to "every Sabbath they met for Gospel preaching in the Synagogue" --
we have NOT ONE statement of the form "the first day is the Lord's Day" --
Not ONE "every first day of the week both Jews and Gentiles met for Gospel preaching"
========================================== capital letters for emphasis not volume
I find this discussion very enjoyable - thanks to all for your interest and participation
This is a good verse that describes Jason. It's time to walk away and leave him dangling from his thread.
If a wise man has an argument with a fool,
the fool only rages and laughs, and there is no quiet.
~Proverbs 29:9
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
No He was not a liar - He perfectly fulfilled the commandments of God - like the one to honor parents and the one to not take God's name in vain.
And so must we live in harmony with God's Commandments.
The saints comply with the LAW of God according to Romans 8:4-10 while the lost remain at war with it such that they "do not submit to the LAW of God neither indeed CAN they"
I think we can all see that Bible detail clearly.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Jason has wayyy too many Bible texts in support of his statements to simply ignore them all.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Christ's opponents accused Him of not only breaking the Commandments of God - but als0 of "teaching others to do so" as well.
The very thing Christ condemns in Matthew 5.
Bob, you are siding with a heretic. Where does that place you?
There are 8 1/2 that are repeated in some form for NT Christians. It is repeated not to worship images, but not to refrain from ,#making# images or likenesses, as the 2nd C says. That would rule out photography, engineering drawing, computer icons, among other things. And the Sabbath is ad nauseum here.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
I said -- Jason has too many Bible texts that make his case to simply ignore them all.
you said:
I think we had tons of that "proof by calling the Protestant a heretic" in the dark ages - to start going back to the proof-by-name-calling method "again". I hope we can all agree on at least that much.
you said:
I think we had tons of that "proof by calling the Protestant a heretic" in the dark ages - to start going back to the proof-by-name-calling method "again". I hope we can all agree on at least that much.
Bob, do you ignore context?
I showed how Jason took Hebrews 10 out of context. Jason also has no clue what Ezekiel 18 is referencing.
Do you have no biblical discernment or grasp of grace, Bob?
You are supporting a heretic. Such failure to grasp scripture is not worth talking to you.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Never.
1. I have not read this entire thread and have not read any posts here on Hebrews 10 or Ezek 18.
2. I do not call people names when I differ with them since I am not Catholic nor married to the dark ages.
Jason takes his bible texts and simple ignores what they really say. I showed him right from Deuteronomy where God told the Jewish people to pick spiritual leaders (Rabbis) who will teach the people and that they were to listen to them. Jason rejects this truth, so in the end having many Bible texts mean nothing if they are not correctly received.
I'm a heretic to heretics, lol
You always know you are winning an argument when it devolves to name calling. Just look at the democrats
Marcion teams up with a catholic and thinks by consensus they are right. It is hard to understand scripture when you start with faulty premises and false teachings by systems of man. Nobody likes to be told they are wrong, but if they will look at the source of truth (all of the scriptures), they have to admit what it says or lie to themselves.
What the scriptures teach is this: "Obey me and you will be My people and I will be your Mighty One"
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Jason: Question. I'm assuming when you keep weekly Sabbath that you also keep the annual Sabbaths, too (as part of the 4th commandment), i.e. feast days? I do.
Yes. Lev 23 are all His sabbaths. Good for you.
We can't necessarily keep the other ones that require a temple/priesthood/sacrifice/travel, but we can memorialize them and honor them the best we can. I take work off on the required days and fast on yom kippur. We also go tenting for sukkot and try to gather with like minded people on these days.
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If this ever happens to Jason, we know what he will required to do...
Deuteronomy 25:11-12
[11]“If two Israelite men get into a fight and the wife of one tries to rescue her husband by grabbing the testicles of the other man,
[12]you must cut off her hand. Show her no pity.
Deuteronomy 25:11-12
[11]“If two Israelite men get into a fight and the wife of one tries to rescue her husband by grabbing the testicles of the other man,
[12]you must cut off her hand. Show her no pity.
Where in the NEW Testamnet, under the New Covenant, were we commanded to keep the OT Sabbath though?
Those who are enslaved under the Law must be freed by Jesus under His Grace!
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