Who changed the sabbath?

[Revmitchell]

Col 2:16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.
Col 2:17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

 

[The Biblicist]

"Their works" yes. YHVH's commands - no. There is a big difference.

Iniquity = sin = breaking torah (1 john 3:4).

Jesus is the foundation because he is the living word (torah is the foundation also - same thing).

I'm not the one taking these out of context, but applying the proper interpretation of what sin is.

sorry, but your response makes no sense. Your "iniquity = sin = breaking Torah makes no sense as John is writing to them about a "new" commandment. We are under the "new" Covenant, not the "old" covenant in the Torah. Jesus is not the written word but the living expression of God while the written word is the expression of the will of God.

 

[The Biblicist]

I am not going to fight about this, but Sunday, the first day of the week is the keeping of the fourth commandment under the "new" covenant (Psa. 118:23-25; Mk. 16:9; Heb. 4:9-10). It is the better sabbath because it remembers a greater work than the now sin cursed creation of old, and it points forward to a better creation to come where no sin exists.

The Sabbath law cannot be restricted to any particular day of the week, as it is applicable to other days in Leviticus 23, to years. Nowhere does the Bible ever say that the Sabbath is the seventh day "OF THE WEEK" - nowhere and reason is because God does not restrict that law to just a day, but it is applied to several periods of time under the Old Covenant. Under the "new" covenant it is fixed to the first day of the week. We are no longer under the sabbatical laws in the "old" covenant but our sabbath keeping is described in Psalm 118:25.

 

[MsGuidedAngel]

The Sabbath is also known as Shabbat Shalom ( Peaceful Sabbath )!! Jesus-Yeshua Christ is our KING / LORD / MESSIAH / SAVIOUR amd HE is our True PEACE ( Shalom )

( Proverbs 3:5-6 KJV ) “Trust in the LORD ( ADONAI ) with all thine Heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways Acknowledge HIM, and HE shall direct thy Paths.”!! TRUST in the LORD Jesus-Yeshua Christ with All Thine HEART and SOUL!!

 

[Jason1]

sorry, but your response makes no sense. Your "iniquity = sin = breaking Torah makes no sense as John is writing to them about a "new" commandment. We are under the "new" Covenant, not the "old" covenant in the Torah. Jesus is not the written word but the living expression of God while the written word is the expression of the will of God.

Read john again, especially 1 john 3:4. Then read it again.

 

[Jason1]

I am not going to fight about this, but Sunday, the first day of the week is the keeping of the fourth commandment under the "new" covenant (Psa. 118:23-25; Mk. 16:9; Heb. 4:9-10). It is the better sabbath because it remembers a greater work than the now sin cursed creation of old, and it points forward to a better creation to come where no sin exists.

The Sabbath law cannot be restricted to any particular day of the week, as it is applicable to other days in Leviticus 23, to years. Nowhere does the Bible ever say that the Sabbath is the seventh day "OF THE WEEK" - nowhere and reason is because God does not restrict that law to just a day, but it is applied to several periods of time under the Old Covenant. Under the "new" covenant it is fixed to the first day of the week. We are no longer under the sabbatical laws in the "old" covenant but our sabbath keeping is described in Psalm 118:25.

100% incorrect. But it does sound like good church doctrine if you want to follow man and not follow YHVH.

 

[Yeshua1]

even in the NT "SIN IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4
even in the NT "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
Even in the NT "do we abolish the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! in fact we ESTABLISH the LAW " Rom 3:31
Even in the NT "it is not the hearers of the LAW that are just before God but the DOERS of the LAW WILL BE justified... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge" Rom 2:13-16
Even in the NT "this is the NEW Covenant ... I will write My LAW on their heart and mind" Hebrews 8:6-10
Even in the NT - breakers of God's Law - are in sin. James 2.
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors.

The Sabbath was NEVER given to the Church under the new Covenant now!

 

[MennoSota]

Read the passage that he quoted. I'm pointing out what it is saying at the end:

[8]Don’t let anyone capture you with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers of this world, rather than from Christ.
[15]In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross.
[16]So don’t let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths.
[17]For these rules are only shadows of the reality yet to come. And Christ himself is that reality.
[18]Don’t let anyone condemn you by insisting on pious self-denial or the worship of angels, saying they have had visions about these things. Their sinful minds have made them proud,
[19]and they are not connected to Christ, the head of the body. For he holds the whole body together with its joints and ligaments, and it grows as God nourishes it.
[20]You have died with Christ, and he has set you free from the spiritual powers of this world. So why do you keep on following the rules of the world, such as,
[21]“Don’t handle! Don’t taste! Don’t touch!”?
[22]Such rules are mere human teachings about things that deteriorate as we use them.
[23]These rules may seem wise because they require strong devotion, pious self-denial, and severe bodily discipline. But they provide no help in conquering a person’s evil desires.

The spiritual rulers and authorities (pharisees & saudusees of the day) - he disarmed them and their rules of man (oral law). All of these things listed in this passage pertain to THEIR rules and not written law. This passage parallels several other of Pauls in which he keeps making the same point. Here is one parallel:

Gal 4:9 But now after you have known Elohim, or rather are known by Elohim, how do you turn again to the weak and poor elementary matters, to which you wish to be enslaved again?
Gal 4:10 You observe days and months and seasons and years.
Gal 4:11 I fear for you, lest by any means I have laboured for you in vain.
​

What was enslaving them? Oral law. Here is what Yeshua said:

Mat 23:4 “For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders, but with their finger they do not wish to move them.
Mat 23:5 “And they do all their works to be seen by men, and they make their t’fillen wide and lengthen the tzitziyot1 of their garments, Footnote:1Plural of Tzitzit - See Explanatory notes - “Tzitzit” and Num. 15:37-41, Dt. 22:12.
Mat 23:6 and they love the best place at feasts, and the best seats in the congregations,
Mat 23:7 and the greetings in the market-places, and to be called by men, ‘Rabbi, Rabbi.’
​

And what is the contrast to this?:

Mat 11:29 “Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am meek and humble in heart, and you shall find rest for your beings..
Mat 11:30 “For My yoke is gentle and My burden is light.”

Deu 30:11 “For this command which I am commanding you today, it is not too hard for you, nor is it far off.​

So we see that Yeshua's yoke is light (written word) while oral law is a heavy burden.

Does this make more sense now?

Jason, you are creating your own oral law and then cherry picking which laws you are going to attempt to obey. You are a modern day Judaiser. Blind, deaf and dead in your trespasses and sins. It is heartbreaking to watch you fight for the right to spend eternity on hell.

 

[MennoSota]

So are you saying if we do not follow the OT sabbath we are lost and without God?

That is exactly Jason's belief. Jason believes that Jesus (a lesser god) saved us, but we must fully obey the Torah to maintain salvation.

Jason has already utterly failed, but he wants others to join him. He is exactly like the Judaisers in Galatians, which Paul calls anathema.

 

[The Biblicist]

Read john again, especially 1 john 3:4. Then read it again.

There is no basis for any reasonable discussion with you as you are completely irrational and unreasonable in your responses. You think by simply asserting and reasserting what you believe makes it so. You don't deal with any evidence presented but simply ignore it. I will let others who have nothing better to do argue with you as it is a waste of my time.You my friend are being placed on ignore.

 

[BobRyan]

The Sabbath was NEVER given to the Church under the new Covenant now!

even in the NT "SIN IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4
even in the NT "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
Even in the NT "do we abolish the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! in fact we ESTABLISH the LAW " Rom 3:31
Even in the NT "it is not the hearers of the LAW that are just before God but the DOERS of the LAW WILL BE justified... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge" Rom 2:13-16
Even in the NT "this is the NEW Covenant ... I will write My LAW on their heart and mind" Hebrews 8:6-10
Even in the NT - breakers of God's Law - are in sin. James 2.
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors.

The Sabbath was NEVER given to the Church under the new Covenant now!

You are quoting "you" -- right?

Those are New Testament writers --

But as for the OT here we have the OT telling us that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23

 

[BobRyan]

Read john again, especially 1 john 3:4. Then read it again.

In fact John also reminds us in John 14 and John 12 - that Christ gave no commandments of his own - but only spoke the Commandments of the Father.

 

[Jason1]

In fact John also reminds us in John 14 and John 12 - that Christ gave no commandments of his own - but only spoke the Commandments of the Father.

EXACTTTTTLLLLYYYYY

 

[MennoSota]

You are quoting "you" -- right?

Those are New Testament writers --

But as for the OT here we have the OT telling us that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23

Last I checked, God spoke and men, moved by the Spirit of God, wrote His words. There is no separation in God's word. There is only a continued narrative of grace from Adam to Yeshua's reign.
The law sets up God's grace in a beautiful way. Why would anyone remain stuck in the law? It has no power to save. It only has the ability to condemn. It serves its beautiful purpose of calling out for grace. God's grace is revealed, not in the Sabbath, but in the Lord of the Sabbath. Because of the Lord of the Sabbath, we who are adopted by God have entered into rest. It is a blessed thing.

God forbid I go back to the law, when Jesus declares that the curse of the law is finished. We are now at rest. What joy is ours who know the Lord of the Sabbath.

 

[Jason1]

Last I checked, God spoke and men, moved by the Spirit of God, wrote His words. There is no separation in God's word. There is only a continued narrative of grace from Adam to Yeshua's reign.
The law sets up God's grace in a beautiful way. Why would anyone remain stuck in the law? It has no power to save. It only has the ability to condemn. It serves its beautiful purpose of calling out for grace. God's grace is revealed, not in the Sabbath, but in the Lord of the Sabbath. Because of the Lord of the Sabbath, we who are adopted by God have entered into rest. It is a blessed thing.

God forbid I go back to the law, when Jesus declares that the curse of the law is finished. We are now at rest. What joy is ours who know the Lord of the Sabbath.

This is all stinking thinking

1. The law was given as grace (Deu 6:24)
2. The sabbath was given as grace (Mark 2:27)
3. The law has the ability to warrant blessings (Deu 28)
4. The lawful enter into the Kingdom (Rev 22:14)
5. Anyone not keeping the law are thrown out (Matt 7:23)

Don't follow lawless people into the pit. They cannot see where they are going because they are blinded by false theology.

 

[MennoSota]

This is all stinking thinking

1. The law was given as grace (Deu 6:24)
2. The sabbath was given as grace (Mark 2:27)
3. The law has the ability to warrant blessings (Deu 28)
4. The lawful enter into the Kingdom (Rev 22:14)
5. Anyone not keeping the law are thrown out (Matt 7:23)

Don't follow lawless people into the pit. They cannot see where they are going because they are blinded by false theology.

Jason, you can never be saved by the law. The law condemns you as a sinner. You are going to hell without any doubt because the law you are trying to keep is the key witness that you are a law breaker. The law condemns you.

Jason, how are you going to free yourself from the condemnation of the law? Explain it. Use the Bible and show me how the law is going to release you from the laws you have already broken. How does the law redeem you from the law?

Dude, you dangle over the pit of hell by a thread. Who is going to catch you when the thread burns up?

 

[HankD]

This is all stinking thinking

1. The law was given as grace (Deu 6:24)
2. The sabbath was given as grace (Mark 2:27)
3. The law has the ability to warrant blessings (Deu 28)
4. The lawful enter into the Kingdom (Rev 22:14)
5. Anyone not keeping the law are thrown out (Matt 7:23)

Don't follow lawless people into the pit. They cannot see where they are going because they are blinded by false theology.

Jason we know you belong to the Hebraic Roots Movement (HRM) Cult.
You deny that Jesus Christ is The Second Person of the Trinity Come in the flesh.
You deny the second birth.
You deny the Trinity.

You can affirm right now that Jesus is God almighty come in the flesh.

Nuff said.

HankD

 

[Jason1]

Jason, you can never be saved by the law. The law condemns you as a sinner. You are going to hell without any doubt because the law you are trying to keep is the key witness that you are a law breaker. The law condemns you.

Jason, how are you going to free yourself from the condemnation of the law? Explain it. Use the Bible and show me how the law is going to release you from the laws you have already broken. How does the law redeem you from the law?

Dude, you dangle over the pit of hell by a thread. Who is going to catch you when the thread burns up?

All basic answers already hashed. Read Ez 18 for one, then learn about the atonement sacrifice of Yeshua, then learn about the passover sacrifice of Yeshua. You also really need to learn what repentance is because Marcion has no clue.

Paul's "Letters" that he wrote never trump scripture EVER. Just because he comes at the end of the book doesn't change the beginning. Find the foundation so you quit falling.

 

[MennoSota]

Jason, you can never be saved by the law. The law condemns you as a sinner. You are going to hell without any doubt because the law you are trying to keep is the key witness that you are a law breaker. The law condemns you.

Jason, how are you going to free yourself from the condemnation of the law? Explain it. Use the Bible and show me how the law is going to release you from the laws you have already broken. How does the law redeem you from the law?

Dude, you dangle over the pit of hell by a thread. Who is going to catch you when the thread burns up?

You didn't answer the question, Jason. How is the law that condemns you going to redeem you?

 

[Jason1]

You didn't answer the question, Jason. How is the law that condemns you going to redeem you?

Redemption isn't what it is designed for.