Bingo!
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Who changed the sabbath?
- Thread starter Jason1
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Bingo!
Katarina, Jason is a part of the Hebrew Roots cult, which is an offshoot of the church of god cult. He has no connection to the body of Christ.
You really don't make any sense because you are catholic yet proclaim rabbinical authority based on faulty assumptions. I know catholicism is just perverted judaism, but you can't claim the truth of both.
Notice how a follower of Marcion demonizes those who uphold the Words of Elohim.
Yawn. You don't know Elohim, Jason, nor do you uphold Him.
1Jn 2:3 And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands.1 Footnote: 1See 3:6.
1Jn 2:4 The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Elohim has been perfected1 in him. By this we know that we are in Him.2 Footnotes: 1Gen. 17:1, Ps. 119:1, Mt. 5:48. 2See 3:24.
1Jn 2:6 The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked.
Jason: I side with you, and yes the Sabbath was not changed. Likewise the standards of the Law are still in effect. However, while I don't believe this of you, you sound as if (to these fine folks) that keeping the Law shows you have faith, but in such a way that it's man's works. In other words, it now becomes the "works of faith" and thus I think a misunderstanding is happening here. When we talk about the Law (Torah) and works, the issue now is whose works are we talking about? Before Christ, it was "do this and you shall live" --man's works. One gained righteousness (and failed as Paul pointed out) by keeping the Law. But when Christ came and dies for us, the Holy Spirit was given to empower one to obey his commands, thus we don't gain credit but show the righteousness of Christ. So when we obey the Law that's because the Spirit enables us -- yes the Law is very much in effect yet! But we don't "try" to keep it but we do keep it by the Spirit because it's the Spirit's works. The more I learn the bible (and Hebrew), I WANT to obey because of God's Spirit.
I honestly think you are saying the same thing, but not too well from what I am reading. I think we are in agreement here, and the rest would be as well. After all, nobody is against the 10 commandments (when is it OK, for example, to now steal because the Law is supposedly "done away" with)? Beforehand, a person breaking it once was guilty of death. Now Christ took, not the Law away, but the penalty of the Law and forgives 70 times 7. Then we can try (by His might of course) again. That is grace instead of works.
I honestly think you are saying the same thing, but not too well from what I am reading. I think we are in agreement here, and the rest would be as well. After all, nobody is against the 10 commandments (when is it OK, for example, to now steal because the Law is supposedly "done away" with)? Beforehand, a person breaking it once was guilty of death. Now Christ took, not the Law away, but the penalty of the Law and forgives 70 times 7. Then we can try (by His might of course) again. That is grace instead of works.
And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight. - Acts 20:7
And we have been worshiping on the first day ever since.
And we have been worshiping on the first day ever since.
Colossians 2:6-23
[6]And now, just as you accepted Christ Jesus as your Lord, you must continue to follow him.
[7]Let your roots grow down into him, and let your lives be built on him. Then your faith will grow strong in the truth you were taught, and you will overflow with thankfulness.
[8]Don’t let anyone capture you with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers of this world, rather than from Christ.
[9]For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body.
[10]So you also are complete through your union with Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority.
[11]When you came to Christ, you were “circumcised,” but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision—the cutting away of your sinful nature.
[12]For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead.
[13]You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins.
[14]He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross.
[15]In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross.
[16]So don’t let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths.
[17]For these rules are only shadows of the reality yet to come. And Christ himself is that reality.
[18]Don’t let anyone condemn you by insisting on pious self-denial or the worship of angels, saying they have had visions about these things. Their sinful minds have made them proud,
[19]and they are not connected to Christ, the head of the body. For he holds the whole body together with its joints and ligaments, and it grows as God nourishes it.
[20]You have died with Christ, and he has set you free from the spiritual powers of this world. So why do you keep on following the rules of the world, such as,
[21]“Don’t handle! Don’t taste! Don’t touch!”?
[22]Such rules are mere human teachings about things that deteriorate as we use them.
[23]These rules may seem wise because they require strong devotion, pious self-denial, and severe bodily discipline. But they provide no help in conquering a person’s evil desires.
Well, I agree mostly with your post. Salavation is the same as it always was (obey me and live). What Yeshua did was provide redemption (buying us back to the Father after we had been divorced). Now that we can be redeemed and our slate wiped clean, we can now obey in newness of spirit. The new covenant is the same terms, but with better promises. You are correct that He gives us His spirit to help us keep the law (yet he only gives it to those whom obey acts 5:32). Keeping the law is indeed a work of Faith and there is no faith without it.
You are also of a good spirit in that you want to obey. This shows the mark of a true believer and not a false one. It is submission to your King and His rule.
One things you are wrong is that most here are against at least 1 of the 10 commandments. That is the purpose of this thread is to point this out and how the error of not keeping the sabbath. Most are also against other laws because they feel they have a "freedom" to disobey now and openly sin and do what thou wilt (only law of satanism).
Grace (mercy) is key, but we must have a response of repentance and obedience to it.
I'm thinking you totally missed the verses about "rules of the world" and "human teachings". This is not the subject we are talking about at all but about the written word of Elohim.
I quoted the written word of Elohim. Why do you reject Elohim's word.
Since you fail to read your own post let me help:
[20]You have died with Christ, and he has set you free from the spiritual powers of this world. So why do you keep on following the rules of the world, such as,
[22]Such rules are mere human teachings about things that deteriorate as we use them.
Your rules are made up by you and you decide which ones you will follow and which you will not follow.
Me? Christ has set me free so that I can follow him by grace, not by the law.
Jason, your own rules condemn you to hell and the sad part is you are clueless as you go to hell.
Katarina Von Bora
Active Member
Amazing that anyone could miss the message of Colossians 2.
It's a problem for me when people have to bear false witness to change what scripture says.
I used to not have any problems with Messianics. But over the years, I have witnessed cult like behavior. It's almost impossible to wade through all the groups.
God Bless you for standing strong in Jesus.
Katarina Von Bora
Active Member
What kind, if any, Bible hermeneutic are you using? What was Paul addressing in the 2nd chapter of Colossians?
Read the passage that he quoted. I'm pointing out what it is saying at the end:
[8]Don’t let anyone capture you with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers of this world, rather than from Christ.
[15]In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross.
[16]So don’t let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths.
[17]For these rules are only shadows of the reality yet to come. And Christ himself is that reality.
[18]Don’t let anyone condemn you by insisting on pious self-denial or the worship of angels, saying they have had visions about these things. Their sinful minds have made them proud,
[19]and they are not connected to Christ, the head of the body. For he holds the whole body together with its joints and ligaments, and it grows as God nourishes it.
[20]You have died with Christ, and he has set you free from the spiritual powers of this world. So why do you keep on following the rules of the world, such as,
[21]“Don’t handle! Don’t taste! Don’t touch!”?
[22]Such rules are mere human teachings about things that deteriorate as we use them.
[23]These rules may seem wise because they require strong devotion, pious self-denial, and severe bodily discipline. But they provide no help in conquering a person’s evil desires.
The spiritual rulers and authorities (pharisees & saudusees of the day) - he disarmed them and their rules of man (oral law). All of these things listed in this passage pertain to THEIR rules and not written law. This passage parallels several other of Pauls in which he keeps making the same point. Here is one parallel:
Gal 4:9 But now after you have known Elohim, or rather are known by Elohim, how do you turn again to the weak and poor elementary matters, to which you wish to be enslaved again?
Gal 4:10 You observe days and months and seasons and years.
Gal 4:11 I fear for you, lest by any means I have laboured for you in vain.
What was enslaving them? Oral law. Here is what Yeshua said:Gal 4:10 You observe days and months and seasons and years.
Gal 4:11 I fear for you, lest by any means I have laboured for you in vain.
Mat 23:4 “For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders, but with their finger they do not wish to move them.
Mat 23:5 “And they do all their works to be seen by men, and they make their t’fillen wide and lengthen the tzitziyot1 of their garments, Footnote:1Plural of Tzitzit - See Explanatory notes - “Tzitzit” and Num. 15:37-41, Dt. 22:12.
Mat 23:6 and they love the best place at feasts, and the best seats in the congregations,
Mat 23:7 and the greetings in the market-places, and to be called by men, ‘Rabbi, Rabbi.’
And what is the contrast to this?:Mat 23:5 “And they do all their works to be seen by men, and they make their t’fillen wide and lengthen the tzitziyot1 of their garments, Footnote:1Plural of Tzitzit - See Explanatory notes - “Tzitzit” and Num. 15:37-41, Dt. 22:12.
Mat 23:6 and they love the best place at feasts, and the best seats in the congregations,
Mat 23:7 and the greetings in the market-places, and to be called by men, ‘Rabbi, Rabbi.’
Mat 11:29 “Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am meek and humble in heart, and you shall find rest for your beings..
Mat 11:30 “For My yoke is gentle and My burden is light.”
Deu 30:11 “For this command which I am commanding you today, it is not too hard for you, nor is it far off.
Mat 11:30 “For My yoke is gentle and My burden is light.”
Deu 30:11 “For this command which I am commanding you today, it is not too hard for you, nor is it far off.
So we see that Yeshua's yoke is light (written word) while oral law is a heavy burden.
Does this make more sense now?
So you believe you can be as "good" as Jesus huh? The rich young ruler also believed that and came to Jesus on a basis of equality with Jesus ("good master....what good thing must I DO") but Jesus asked him "why callest thou me good, for there is none good but one and that is God." Do you believe there is "none good but one and that is God? Or do you believe you too can be as "good" as God? You said, Jesus was set forth to be our example, do you believe you can be as "good" as Jesus?
First, I never said that. "we are created in Christ Jesus TO good works" as the new birth gives us the inclination to do good whereas the power to do good is found in the Spirit alone. But justification is not sanctification and you are confusing the two. Abraham was "justified without works" and especially "without" the works of the written law as he lived hundreds of years before Moses wrote the first five books of our Bible. Abraham is set forth as the standard for "all who are of faith" with regard to justification "before God." Your view is completely repudiated by Paul in Romans 3:9-5:1 as he methodically dismantles and destroys everything you have said. Care to challenge me and enter into a discussion of Romans 3:9-5;1? Note that Romans 3:9 includes GENTILES and not merely Jews and Romans 3:19-20 includes "every mouth" and "all the world" and not just Israel. Care to take up this challenge?
You simply ignored the biblical context in John 1:1-3 and continue to jerk the very words out of their context and create your own doctrine out of your own imagination.
What covenant are you talking about? The New Covenant does not require obedience but rather secures our obedience through the new birth and indwelling Spirit as a free gift of God (Ezk.36:26-27; Jer 31:33-34 is called the "new" covenant in Hebrews 8:10-12.
That is patently false as circumcision is prescribed in the written law and Abraham is called the father of circumcision and Abraham is the subject of Galatians 3-4. Have you read Genesis 17? Have you read God's command to Moses found in the written Law? Apparently not!
James is talking about justification of your profession of faith before men "if a man says I have faith" but there is no works then profession is worthless as we are "created in Christ Jesus TO good works" (Eph. 2:10). However, the creative act of the new birth occurs first whereas "good works" are merely the fruit or evidence before men.
You don't believe John 3;16 that eternal life is a "GIFT" or Ephesians 2:8-10 that "we are saved by grace through faith AND THAT NOT OF YOURSELF, its a GIFT of God NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast". Instead you attempt to define "grace" as inclusive of YOUR OWN WORKS which is the "accursed" gospel Paul condemns.
Of coarse eternal life is a gift, that isn't even in question. What it takes to be in His favor is what is in question.
Mat 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Master, Master,’ shall enter into the reign of the heavens, but he who is doing the desire of My Father in the heavens.
Mat 7:22 “Many shall say to Me in that day, ‘Master, Master, have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and done many mighty works in Your Name?’
Mat 7:23 “And then I shall declare to them, ‘I never knew you, depart from Me, you who work lawlessness!
Obedience is the basics
Who changed the sabbath? Who changed the sabbath?
"I," said the pope. "Are we Jews?-- goodness nope!
We live by faith, love, sacraments and hope.
'Twas I, 'twas I, 'twas I, O!"
Who changed the sabbath? Who changed the sabbath?
"I," said Magelllon,"without that much yellin',
We sailed into yesterday across the world, I'm tellin'!
'Twas I, 'twas I, 'twas I, O!"
Who changed the sabbath? Who changed the sabbath?
"I," said Gordon Cooper, "the flight I had was super!
A sunset every hour makes each '7th day' a blooper.
'Twas I, 'twas I, 'twas I, O!"
Who changed the sabbath? Who changed the sabbath?
"I," said the Son of Man. "Do good always, the best you can.
On a sabbath I healed a paralytic, and was condemned by many a critic.
I told them my Father works till now-- they tried to stir a violent row.
My disciples picked and ate some corn, but on sabbath that was met with scorn.
So 'why?' you ask, 'is there such a command?'--To rest man's body as he works the land.
But if it's the day that's your accord-- my Father and I work on that day... of which I am Lord.
'Twas I, 'twas I, 'twas I, O!"
"I," said the pope. "Are we Jews?-- goodness nope!
We live by faith, love, sacraments and hope.
'Twas I, 'twas I, 'twas I, O!"
Who changed the sabbath? Who changed the sabbath?
"I," said Magelllon,"without that much yellin',
We sailed into yesterday across the world, I'm tellin'!
'Twas I, 'twas I, 'twas I, O!"
Who changed the sabbath? Who changed the sabbath?
"I," said Gordon Cooper, "the flight I had was super!
A sunset every hour makes each '7th day' a blooper.
'Twas I, 'twas I, 'twas I, O!"
Who changed the sabbath? Who changed the sabbath?
"I," said the Son of Man. "Do good always, the best you can.
On a sabbath I healed a paralytic, and was condemned by many a critic.
I told them my Father works till now-- they tried to stir a violent row.
My disciples picked and ate some corn, but on sabbath that was met with scorn.
So 'why?' you ask, 'is there such a command?'--To rest man's body as he works the land.
But if it's the day that's your accord-- my Father and I work on that day... of which I am Lord.
'Twas I, 'twas I, 'twas I, O!"
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