Who Chooses?

[TheOneWhoLives]

If you think those verses that I posted do not show free will then prove it with those verses.

Silver, you keep surfing around the issue. The burden of proof is on you. None of those verses you cited address whether or not man is able to respond positively to the command to repent. You are assuming that man has a free will just because they are told to choose. I know that you’re a bit preoccupied trying to save the galaxy from Doctor Doom, but if you could, please point me to one verse that explicitly says that the unregenerate man can do what is spiritually good. I gave you one verse that says he can’t.

 

[Christforums]

No, Charlie.
Salvation is not a market deal where we "do our part" and God does the rest.

Synergism vs. Monergism.

 

[Christforums]

Silver, you keep surfing around the issue. The burden of proof is on you. None of those verses you cited address whether or not man is able to respond positively to the command to repent. You are assuming that man has a free will just because they are told to choose. I know that you’re a bit preoccupied trying to save the galaxy from Doctor Doom, but if you could, please point me to one verse that explicitly says that the unregenerate man can do what is spiritually good. I gave you one verse that says he can’t.

Do you ever sometimes want to say not even G-d can save that man? Come on be honest! Or is there a different issue. Does somebody claim to be saved and reject Soli Deo Gloria? If so, have you ever wanted to say G-d could not save that man only that man could save himself! Come on be honest! Nobody could compete w/ their arrogance, well, maybe the RCC.

 

[Charlie24]

Synergism vs. Monergism.

Isaiah 1:18-20

"Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:

But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it."

 

[Silverhair]

Silver, you keep surfing around the issue. The burden of proof is on you. None of those verses you cited address whether or not man is able to respond positively to the command to repent. You are assuming that man has a free will just because they are told to choose. I know that you’re a bit preoccupied trying to save the galaxy from Doctor Doom, but if you could, please point me to one verse that explicitly says that the unregenerate man can do what is spiritually good. I gave you one verse that says he can’t.

It seem you have a problem understanding English by boy.

I have given you proof but you just do not like it. If you are so sure those verses do not do what I say they do then prove it by those verses.

Look at what you just posted "You are assuming that man has a free will just because they are told to choose." The fact they are told to choose shows they have the ability to choose. But that bit of logic is beyond you it seems.

But as is usual with those that know they have no argument you deflect. I would say to talk a good game but you can't even do that.

Even the verse you provided does not help your case.
God has provided many ways for man to know about Him whether creation, the gospel message or the conviction of the Holy Spirit. So while the natural man can not know the mind of God he can know the truths of God regarding salvation.
In case your not sure how the bible presents the means of salvation it's hear the gospel believe the gospel be saved by the grace of God through faith in Him.

When you actually have some proof for your false claim then present it as you have not done anything to support your case up to this point.

 

[Silverhair]

Isaiah 1:18-20

"Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:

But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it."

I wonder if @TheOneWhoLives will say that does not prove free will.

As I've said before, I can only show them the truth I can't make them accept it.

If they will not believe clear biblical text then I am not sure what they would believe.

 

[Christforums]

Isaiah 1:18-20

"Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:

But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it."

By reason alone, men do not come back from the dead. Many times throughout the OT men reasoned among themselves and the L-rd pitied them. The light of man or their church is not the Logos.

You are now ignored, Pelagian, apostate RCC. Go back to the 1st grade of New converts. Leave theology to others.

 

[Silverhair]

@Christforums you seem to be confused.

Spiritually dead is not actually dead.

God has given man the ability to hear and understand the gospel message or we have to wonder why He said to preach it in the first place.

Having read a number of your posts I find you are a bit judgemental.

You should take heed to what the bible says
Mat 7:1 "Do not judge so that you will not be judged.
Mat 7:2 "For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.

But unfortunately I do not think you will do that.

 

[Charlie24]

By reason alone, men do not come back from the dead. Many times throughout the OT men reasoned among themselves and the L-rd pitied them. The light of man or their church is not the Logos.

You are now ignored, Pelagian, apostate RCC. Go back to the 1st grade of New converts. Leave theology to others.

Ok, my friend, that's fine with me!

 

[atpollard]

Isaiah 1:18-20

"Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:

But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it."

Remind me again, which did the ENTIRE NATION CHOOSE? [... just before they were dragged off into Babylon.]

Matthew 23:37 [ESV] "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing!

 

[Charlie24]

Remind me again, which did the ENTIRE NATION CHOOSE? [... just before they were dragged off into Babylon.]

Matthew 23:37 [ESV] "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing!

My point with that Scripture is that God gives man free will to choose. He's not an indifferent God that chooses for man and leaves him out of decision making. God works with man.

 

[atpollard]

My point with that Scripture is that God gives man free will to choose. He's not an indifferent God that chooses for man and leaves him out of decision making. God works with man.

My point is that MEN always make the same choice as Adam ... so God must take stronger action to save some [John 6:44, John 10:29, Ephesians 2:5]: the Father DRAWS, GIVES and MAKES ALIVE.

God DESIRES to do things the easy way, but people always INSIST on the hard way.

 

[Charlie24]

My point is that MEN always make the same choice as Adam ... so God must take stronger action to save some [John 6:44, John 10:29, Ephesians 2:5]: the Father DRAWS, GIVES and MAKES ALIVE.

God DESIRES to do things the easy way, but people always INSIST on the hard way.

Adam chose to believe Satan over God through the lure of sin. It's still happening today. Not all choose as Adam did.

Some when they hear the Gospel and are convicted of sin, see who they really are, a sinner in need of a Saviour.

As you can see from the Scripture I posted, "if you are willing" says the Lord.

 

[TheOneWhoLives]

It seem you have a problem understanding English by boy.

Did you mean “my boy”?

I suppose that I would have a problem understanding English when words are misspelled.

The fact they are told to choose shows they have the ability to choose.

That is your assumption while you reject other clear verses that tell us that man is dead in sin.

When you actually have some proof for your false claim then present it as you have not done anything to support your case up to this point.

I think you need to take a rest from the silver board and let Flash Gordon take up the mantle for little while. You really should read “The Freedom of the Will” by Jonathan Edward’s so that you can think about how this all fits together.

 

[atpollard]

As you can see from the Scripture I posted, "if you are willing" says the Lord.

As you can see from the Babylonian Exile and the scripture I posted NOBODY was willing, so Christ had to come in person and the Father had to DRAW and GIVE people to the son to get them to "be willing".

John 3:19-21 [ESV]
And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, [WITHOUT GOD = "not willing"] lest his works should be exposed. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God." [WITH GOD = "willing"]

 

[Charlie24]

As you can see from the Babylonian Exile and the scripture I posted NOBODY was willing, so Christ had to come in person and the Father had to DRAW and GIVE people to the son to get them to "be willing".

John 3:19-21 [ESV]
And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, [WITHOUT GOD = "not willing"] lest his works should be exposed. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God." [WITH GOD = "willing"]

Yes, they would not believe God and He allowed them their will to disobey that led to captivity.

They sent themselves into captivity after God had warned them over and over through the prophets.

How does God draw? Does He say I'll take you and that one over there, but I don't want this one?

Of course not! God comes to us with His Gospel and the Holy Spirit convicts of sin and we are given a choice.

It's the Holy Spirit that breaks through the total depravity with truth and conviction from God's Word.