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Who has not failed?
- Thread starter steaver
- Start date
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
A better question would be -- "What sin does the Bible say you MUST continue to commit as a born-again Christian"?
1Cor 10 and Romans 6 make it clear that the answer is "none".
However Romans 8 DOES bring to view a group that MUST continue to sin --
Rom 8
5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the Law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
8 and those who are [b]in the flesh cannot please God[/b].
1Cor 10 and Romans 6 make it clear that the answer is "none".
However Romans 8 DOES bring to view a group that MUST continue to sin --
Rom 8
5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the Law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
8 and those who are [b]in the flesh cannot please God[/b].
That is not a better question for the answer is as you say "none".
A good question would be why is it everyone born of God does still have failures at keeping God's commandments? For it appears to be evident that their is no one who will stand up and say that they have kept God's commandments without at least an occassional failure.
Now I myself find myself failing daily even though I really desire to keep God's commandments. Here is the one that I believe I fail at everyday,
Mat 22:37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
I don't know how anyone can live up to this one.
:jesus:
The Apostle Paul in Romans Chapter 7 discusses the constant warfare between his old nature (i.e, the flesh, v. 18) and his new nature that he experienced.
All of us who are saved experience this same conflict. We cannot win this battle in our own efforts but must constantly rely on the Holy Spirit who dwells within us if we expect victory over the flesh.
I must confess that I fail miserably in this respect. This is why I'm so thankful that I can cling to the promise given to us in I John 1:9!!
Thank You, Lord Jesus, for shedding Your precious blood for a sinner like me!! :jesus:
All of us who are saved experience this same conflict. We cannot win this battle in our own efforts but must constantly rely on the Holy Spirit who dwells within us if we expect victory over the flesh.
I must confess that I fail miserably in this respect. This is why I'm so thankful that I can cling to the promise given to us in I John 1:9!!
Thank You, Lord Jesus, for shedding Your precious blood for a sinner like me!! :jesus:
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
to BE in an unrepentant state - (dead or alive) is to be lost. It is defiance of God to violate His Word and declare yourself not to submit to repentance as the Holy Spirit convicts you on that point.
"To him that knows to do right - and does it not - to him it is sin" James 4:17
As James points out in James 2 --- the one who is guilty of breaking one commandment is guilty of breaking all.
John says that the saint that commits sin is to go to Christ - out Advocate - and confess - turn from - repent of that sin, and we will find forgiveness. John does not say that each time we fall we are lost - but if we fall and then cling to the idea of not repenting from sin - we are going down the path of "forgiveness revoked" that Christ describes in Matt 18. (Another topic).
in Christ,
Bob
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David Michael Harris
Active Member
Bet I am the most biggest failure here.
How about Christians who refuse to repent of breaking the Sabbath commandment? Or is the Sabbath commandment one of those commandments not in force for the believer in Christ?
:godisgood:
I would not agree with such a view. I see no evidence in the scriptures that we need to be "perfect" to be granted ultimate salvation. Here in Romans 2, Paul certainly seems to be asserting that eternal life will be granted based on the general character of our behaviour.
God "will give to each person according to what he has done."[a] 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life
And yes, if it is not otherwise clear, I take Paul seriously here - ultimate salvation is indeed a matter of "good works" even if, as per Romans 8, it is the Spirit given to us by grace alone that is responsible for those good works.
Can you be saved and still have sinned on the day you die and not repented? I believe the answer is yes.
Can you live a life of sin and then get it all absolved by "repenting" on your deathbed and still be saved? I believe the answer to this is no.
David Michael Harris
Active Member
Steaver what are you harping on about. You a Jew? You would be better off on the puritan board maybe, if they would have you.
Edit... was that a question?
Edit... was that a question?
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David Michael Harris
Active Member
I like that.
The second may happen, who are we to say
Does not osas basically do the same?
Well, there is the theif on the cross. Not sure you can place any kind of limits on who God can save or the timing thereof.
Thanks. I now realize I made a big error in expression in item 2. And you also made a good point that I would like to incorporate. Here is a better version:I like that.
The second may happen, who are we to say
"Can you claim faith in Christ at 20, then live a life of sin for 50 years, then repent on your deathbed and still be saved? I believe the answer to this is maybe. "
Now that maybe more confusing than before :laugh:
Excellent point as already acknowledged in my last post. Indeed, the thief on the cross was indeed "saved".
Not a Jew. And I have no idea what your post is about :wavey:
David Michael Harris
Active Member
Once your translated I would say no. I was saved at 20 and have made a mess of things. Dear Lord I hope not, I so much want to be saved. I fear God. And have felt the back of His hand. I say fear God.
Anyone know Pilgrims Progress? Man in the iron cage. Well I have been there. I do not wish it on anyone. I joke you not. Fear God and flee sin.
David Michael Harris
Active Member
Sry think I mixed that one up.
David Michael Harris
Active Member
Christianity is about knowing Christ ( inside you ).
The NT is very interesting in this area. Paul said to look. For if anyone did not have... etc etc etc.
Christianity is all about experience in one sense.
Many people talk about some sort of credence or assent that it saves. I think this is error.
Christianity is about knowing a person.
Obviously, I heartily embrace these words.
However, I think that we need to be careful how we interpret them. The broad scriptural picture that I see suggests that if one is not "on a general upward trajetory" in terms of good works (after entering into faith), then our ultimate fate is bleak.
I suggest that one read these words from 1 John as affirming that "slip-ups" can be remediated. But I doubt that these words mean that "you're saved" no matter what kind of life you live after entering into faith.