I also have heard them state that while we are secure in God, and he will never drop us, we have still free will to take ourselves out of His hand!
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Who is Hebrews 6 actually speaking about then?
- Thread starter Yeshua1
- Start date
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Jesus said “no one” can take His sheep out of His hand. That means no one, not even His sheep. He said He would not lose one.
We didn’t earn our salvation, and we do not have to earn perseverance. Jesus keeps us secure, Holy Spirit indwelling is the down payment promise that what Jesus said is true
peace to you.
He is our "earnest pledge"
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Big reason why eternally secured, as God Himself has sealed us by the Holy Spirit, and will one day give to us our full inheritance!
Have you noticed that Heb. 6 comes after Heb. 3? Psalm 95 is quoted.
Jewish Christians are particularly addressed, in a situation where to confess Christ meant rejection & persecution by the Jewish authorities.
As in the Exodus they followed their leader up to a point, & did not receive the promise because of unbelief.
How many are there in our churches today who like to think they are saved, but without a living faith made evident by a committed life?
Jewish Christians are particularly addressed, in a situation where to confess Christ meant rejection & persecution by the Jewish authorities.
As in the Exodus they followed their leader up to a point, & did not receive the promise because of unbelief.
Heb. 3:12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, 15 while it is said:
“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.”
16 For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses? 17 Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.”
16 For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses? 17 Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
How many are there in our churches today who like to think they are saved, but without a living faith made evident by a committed life?
How many think right with God due to being water baptized, go to a church, and "good person"
Kai
Well-Known Member
I believe these are people who have experienced the blessings of Christianity and made a profession of faith, but whose faith never really took root. This is similar to the seed that fell on rocky ground in Jesus' parable (Matthew 13:20-21). They initially receive the word with joy, but there is no lasting root.
I also think the context is important. The falling away refers to returning to the old covenant sacrificial system, essentially going back to temple sacrifices after having heard the truth of Christ's once-for-all sacrifice. It is impossible to renew them to repentance under that system because, as Hebrews 10:4 tells us, "it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins." Those sacrifices pointed forward to Christ; they were never the ultimate answer to sin.
The writer goes on to say in verse 6 that he is confident of better things concerning his readers, things that accompany salvation. This suggests a distinction between the experiences described earlier and the things that genuinely accompany salvation. Later, in Hebrews 10:39, he says, "But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul."
So I don't believe Hebrews 6 teaches that someone can be genuinely born again and then lose their salvation at all. Jesus said plainly that His sheep shall never perish and that no one can snatch them out of His hand (John 10:28-29).
I also think the context is important. The falling away refers to returning to the old covenant sacrificial system, essentially going back to temple sacrifices after having heard the truth of Christ's once-for-all sacrifice. It is impossible to renew them to repentance under that system because, as Hebrews 10:4 tells us, "it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins." Those sacrifices pointed forward to Christ; they were never the ultimate answer to sin.
The writer goes on to say in verse 6 that he is confident of better things concerning his readers, things that accompany salvation. This suggests a distinction between the experiences described earlier and the things that genuinely accompany salvation. Later, in Hebrews 10:39, he says, "But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul."
So I don't believe Hebrews 6 teaches that someone can be genuinely born again and then lose their salvation at all. Jesus said plainly that His sheep shall never perish and that no one can snatch them out of His hand (John 10:28-29).
Yes. It was addressed to 'that generation' on whom 'the wrath to come', came.
They alwo believe that once you lose it, you can never be saves again. See Hebrews 6
It is not a mystery and one does not have to guess who the epistle was written to. It was written to the Hebrews and the first 3 verses of the epistle is a dead giveaway of that fact.
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds (Aions = ages = time frames with beginnings and endings for specific Devine purposes);
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
So,
Ga 4:4 - But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Not the fulness of times like in Ephesians 1:10 but "the time."
So when was the fulness of the time? It was at the end of the age in which Jesus, the son of God appeared. That is not a guess.
See here:
He 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world (kosmos, the creation): but now once in the end of the world (aion) hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
God made these ten tribes of Israel to be as gentiles, not ethnically but functionally, during this present age and would have builded his house with them had they believed. During this same time Jesus said that Judah, to whom he came in the flesh, would not be saved in this world (aion, He came under the dispensation of Law) neither in the one to come, which is the age of grace., the present one, because of their rejecting him as the Messiah.
Keep in mind that God is not speaking to individuals in these Hebrew Christian epistles but to the tribes of Israel Both Israel in the wilderness under Moses and these strangers under Jesus were led for 40 years to the entrance into their rest and refused to go in.
He 3:11 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.
3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.
4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.
5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;
6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
There is a condition in verse 6 above that should not be forgotten when one reads chapter 6. One must remember that Hebrews was written as late as 68 AD, two years before the dispersion in AD 70. Jude wrote about those who were candidates for the transforming gospel of Jesus Christ and cursed the law keeping Jewish teachers who persuaded them to remain in the Jews religion. John would write in his first epistle as late as 90 AD these words.
1 Jn 2:19: They (the many antichrists) went out from us but they were not of us; for if they had been of us they would no doubt have continued with us, but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
It is interesting to me to see to whom these apostles preached and that we have no Bible record of any of the 12 ever going to gentile lands except where those strangers lived. Paul was the only apostle to go west to Europe as far as I can tell.
Ga 2:6 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man s person) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me:
7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles)
9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
10 Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.
One should read this whole context for there is much to know and God is to be praised for his marvelous wisdom in the church.
God is a God who fashioned time in dispensations for the cause of accomplishing purposes in those time frames and he wrote his Bible in a dispensational framework that must be understood dispensationally. Within those dispensations there are operational transitions of God because he is the member of the Godhead who is in charge of operations. See 1 Cor 12:4-6
Kai
Well-Known Member
It certainly did.
At the same time, that doesn't necessarily mean the entire letter was addressed exclusively to the generation that experienced the destruction of Jerusalem.
The warnings about coming judgment must be understood in context, but they apply to more than just the Hebrew people living back then.
Following up on my initial comments in Post 33 concerning everything at the first coming to the earth of Jesus Christ being in the last days.
I would like to continue this line of thinking and present some other enlightening facts. Some will remember that I have posted this information before but out of 89 chapters that makes up the 4 gospels in our Bible, exactly one third of them, twenty nine, deals with the last eight days of his ministry in Jerusalem, including his death and resurrection. The eighth day was the record of his resurrection and the first day of a new week. But the point I am making here is that all the parables and metaphors he relates to us in his gospel accounts deals with the end of something. even during this week and some days before it.
I should give the chapters when he comes to Jerusalem on what John clearly says in chapter 12 verse 1 was 6 days before the Passover. John's gospel has 21 chapters. Mark has him coming in chapter 11 and he has 16 chapters. Luke records it in chapter 19 of his 24 chapters and Matthew who wrote 28 chapters says it in chapter 21.
I should interject here that God had through the OT prophets revealed that their Messiah would hold three (3) offices over Israel in consecutive order when he came. The first office would be the perfect prophet. A prophet is a man who tells future things that it would be ordinarily impossible for a man to know unless God revealed it to him. His prophecy would be from the time he personally spoke it otherwise it would be a history.
The next office for Messiah would be the office as a perfect Priest. He performed the office as prophet from Mark 1:1 until his ascension in Acts 1 to his Father's throne where we are told he makes intercession to the Father for the saints. A prophet speaks the words of the Father to the people while a priest speaks the words of the people to the Father. So, the office of prophet is past, the office of a priest is present, and the third office he will hold is the perfect King. This is future. While there were 3 different men who foreshadowed this eventuality in the OT, Moses, Aaron, and David when Jesus finally becomes King over Israel and the whole world in the millennium and in the eternal state all three of these offices will be held by him simultaneously for ever.
So here is something one needs to know and by reading comments here it seems that this is not well known. That is that the Old Testament prophets told about the King who was coming to rule over them and keep all his promises to them. The prophets did this for 1500 years before Jesus came always saying Messiah is coming. Then Jesus comes and he does not preach the same message the prophets before him had preached, the kingdom is coming. He said when he came in the fulness of the time that the Messiah, the coming King, was in the midst of them and the kingdom of God is at hand. No prophet had ever preached this and wrote it in a book that claims it is the inspired word of God. There is no mystery about what "at hand" means.
Everyone who is realizing that the kingdom is at hand for the first time take a deep breath. The law must end before the kingdom is inaugurated because the law cannot function in the same way in a kingdom of righteousness because the law cannot save anyone but it condemns every one to death. The Bible says that Christ is the end of the law to everyone that believeth. So the law cannot just go away because it has demands. It demands death and so the sinless man Jesus, being perfectly righteous, provided what the law demands on behalf of the whole world. He died without any sin or condemnation that the law could lay at his feet. Now, the Father God, the Judge of all the earth has been satisfied by this substitution of someone who is able to pay the penalty and so he promised he would impute the righteousness of Jesus to that person who will come to the Father in his name having raised Jesus from the dead.
The Bible says that Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness. He is not the end of the Law because the Law is a good thing and is eternal but the law is not for righteousness. The Bible says that Christ is our righteousness because now he lives in us and empowers us in the person of his Spirit. We cannot be charged with any sin now because of this eternal indwelling Spirit who seals us unto righteousness and when we have the new resurrected body we will never be tempted again through the flesh.
Now for the difference between a dispensation and a transition. The dispensation of Law that Judah was under when Jesus came in the fulness of the time was not the end of the dispensation, the death of Jesus was the end of the dispensation. I did not say that, God did.
He 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament [is] of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
So there is a progression, beginning to end, of a dispensation in which there can be and are transitions until the purpose for that time division is accomplished. Who could believe that the Law could function in the New Testament in the same manner it did for 1500 years in the OT until Jesus came and fulfilled it's penalty, death, and put it away as a divine operative principle in the redemption of men? The purpose of the Law was to bring men to Jesus in faith to receive his life as a gift.
Ga 3:19 Wherefore then [serveth] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
20 Now a mediator is not [a mediator] of one, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
As one reads these parables of the prophet Jesus it seems his intention is to establish his kingdom through the Hebrews since the Jews are under his curse because of their rejection of the kingdom and killing the Messiah but they too are turning away. He is telling them to hold fast UNTIL THE END.
I would like to continue this line of thinking and present some other enlightening facts. Some will remember that I have posted this information before but out of 89 chapters that makes up the 4 gospels in our Bible, exactly one third of them, twenty nine, deals with the last eight days of his ministry in Jerusalem, including his death and resurrection. The eighth day was the record of his resurrection and the first day of a new week. But the point I am making here is that all the parables and metaphors he relates to us in his gospel accounts deals with the end of something. even during this week and some days before it.
I should give the chapters when he comes to Jerusalem on what John clearly says in chapter 12 verse 1 was 6 days before the Passover. John's gospel has 21 chapters. Mark has him coming in chapter 11 and he has 16 chapters. Luke records it in chapter 19 of his 24 chapters and Matthew who wrote 28 chapters says it in chapter 21.
I should interject here that God had through the OT prophets revealed that their Messiah would hold three (3) offices over Israel in consecutive order when he came. The first office would be the perfect prophet. A prophet is a man who tells future things that it would be ordinarily impossible for a man to know unless God revealed it to him. His prophecy would be from the time he personally spoke it otherwise it would be a history.
The next office for Messiah would be the office as a perfect Priest. He performed the office as prophet from Mark 1:1 until his ascension in Acts 1 to his Father's throne where we are told he makes intercession to the Father for the saints. A prophet speaks the words of the Father to the people while a priest speaks the words of the people to the Father. So, the office of prophet is past, the office of a priest is present, and the third office he will hold is the perfect King. This is future. While there were 3 different men who foreshadowed this eventuality in the OT, Moses, Aaron, and David when Jesus finally becomes King over Israel and the whole world in the millennium and in the eternal state all three of these offices will be held by him simultaneously for ever.
So here is something one needs to know and by reading comments here it seems that this is not well known. That is that the Old Testament prophets told about the King who was coming to rule over them and keep all his promises to them. The prophets did this for 1500 years before Jesus came always saying Messiah is coming. Then Jesus comes and he does not preach the same message the prophets before him had preached, the kingdom is coming. He said when he came in the fulness of the time that the Messiah, the coming King, was in the midst of them and the kingdom of God is at hand. No prophet had ever preached this and wrote it in a book that claims it is the inspired word of God. There is no mystery about what "at hand" means.
Everyone who is realizing that the kingdom is at hand for the first time take a deep breath. The law must end before the kingdom is inaugurated because the law cannot function in the same way in a kingdom of righteousness because the law cannot save anyone but it condemns every one to death. The Bible says that Christ is the end of the law to everyone that believeth. So the law cannot just go away because it has demands. It demands death and so the sinless man Jesus, being perfectly righteous, provided what the law demands on behalf of the whole world. He died without any sin or condemnation that the law could lay at his feet. Now, the Father God, the Judge of all the earth has been satisfied by this substitution of someone who is able to pay the penalty and so he promised he would impute the righteousness of Jesus to that person who will come to the Father in his name having raised Jesus from the dead.
The Bible says that Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness. He is not the end of the Law because the Law is a good thing and is eternal but the law is not for righteousness. The Bible says that Christ is our righteousness because now he lives in us and empowers us in the person of his Spirit. We cannot be charged with any sin now because of this eternal indwelling Spirit who seals us unto righteousness and when we have the new resurrected body we will never be tempted again through the flesh.
Now for the difference between a dispensation and a transition. The dispensation of Law that Judah was under when Jesus came in the fulness of the time was not the end of the dispensation, the death of Jesus was the end of the dispensation. I did not say that, God did.
He 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament [is] of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
So there is a progression, beginning to end, of a dispensation in which there can be and are transitions until the purpose for that time division is accomplished. Who could believe that the Law could function in the New Testament in the same manner it did for 1500 years in the OT until Jesus came and fulfilled it's penalty, death, and put it away as a divine operative principle in the redemption of men? The purpose of the Law was to bring men to Jesus in faith to receive his life as a gift.
Ga 3:19 Wherefore then [serveth] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
20 Now a mediator is not [a mediator] of one, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
As one reads these parables of the prophet Jesus it seems his intention is to establish his kingdom through the Hebrews since the Jews are under his curse because of their rejection of the kingdom and killing the Messiah but they too are turning away. He is telling them to hold fast UNTIL THE END.