Who is Jesus Christ's true church?

[Yeshua1]

Once again, the Gospel is the proclamation that Jesus was raised from the dead and is Israel's promised Messiah and the Lord of ALL the world. Thus, salvation is offered to ALL through Jesus Christ.

Romans 1:16 ---> "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."


This is Christianity 101 and the antithesis of Calvinism which says salvation is NOT available to all, but rather just those who Calvin's God arbitrarily chose to be elect. Thankfully though some Protestants are starting to recognize they have been wrong about St. Paul...

Google ---> N.T. Wright and the New Perspective on Paul movement

The true Gospel teaches grace alone faith alone, not the One Rome yeaches!

 

[Yeshua1]

You struggle with the concept of a universal call to reconciliation and a limited number of people who are actually reconciled.

You want humans to be the deciders of their own reconciliation with God and you hate the idea that God is the decider of with whom he chooses to reconcile.

It's really a control issue. You want control. You hate it when I tell you that God has all the control and humanity is at God's mercy.

Your complaint is with God, not John Calvin.

Free will Gospel of Rome!

 

[Wesley Briggman]

How would you read the following text....

Matthew 22:1-14 King James Version (KJV)
1 And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,
2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

The invited guest that refused to attend represent the Jews. They disqualified themselves and became "unworthy" due to their refusal to be continually obedient to God's will. The dispensation of grace was not in place!

The "bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests" represent the gentiles, who by God's grace, were made worthy to attend the feast.

[Rev 19:6-9 ESV] 6 Then I heard what seemed to be the voice of a great multitude, like the roar of many waters and like the sound of mighty peals of thunder, crying out, "Hallelujah! For the Lord our God the Almighty reigns. 7 Let us rejoice and exult and give him the glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and his Bride has made herself ready; 8 it was granted her to clothe herself with fine linen, bright and pure"-- for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints. 9 And the angel said to me, "Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb." And he said to me, "These are the true words of God."

The Bride is the Church, the called out ones. Called out and separated from the goats.

 

[Hobie]

The invited guest that refused to attend represent the Jews. They disqualified themselves and became "unworthy" due to their refusal to be continually obedient to God's will. The dispensation of grace was not in place!

The "bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests" represent the gentiles, who by God's grace, were made worthy to attend the feast.

[Rev 19:6-9 ESV] 6 Then I heard what seemed to be the voice of a great multitude, like the roar of many waters and like the sound of mighty peals of thunder, crying out, "Hallelujah! For the Lord our God the Almighty reigns. 7 Let us rejoice and exult and give him the glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and his Bride has made herself ready; 8 it was granted her to clothe herself with fine linen, bright and pure"-- for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints. 9 And the angel said to me, "Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb." And he said to me, "These are the true words of God."

The Bride is the Church, the called out ones. Called out and separated from the goats.

So are you including all the Jews such as Paul, Peter and the rest of the apostles? I think everyone would agree that is not correct.

Now look at this text, it is clear even Christians can fall into this class of people.

Matthew 7:22-26 King James Version (KJV)

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

 

[Yeshua1]

So are you including all the Jews such as Paul, Peter and the rest of the apostles? I think everyone would agree that is not correct.

Now look at this text, it is clear even Christians can fall into this class of people.

Matthew 7:22-26 King James Version (KJV)

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

NONE in that group were ever saved!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The true church is Baptist like in doctrines and practices!

Which Baptist?

 

[Wesley Briggman]

Now look at this text, it is clear even Christians can fall into this class of people.

Post #84

It is not clear that my works will gain me entry into heaven or my lack of works will justify me being denied entry into heaven.

Please point out to me exactly the word, words or phrase that leads you to conclude that Christ will deny His children entry to where He is or that His children did not build their house upon a rock. Also, provide scripture supporting your position.

The entirety of the Gospel message is that Jesus Christ was born to save His people from the penalty of their sins via His sacrificial death on the cross.

Praise God, when the Holy Spirit convicted me of my sins, He sealed me as a part of the body of Christ, the ekklēsia.

[2Co 1:22 KJV] 22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
Hobie: Who do you think "us" is?

[Eph 1:13 KJV] 13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Hobie: Who do you think "ye" is?

[Eph 4:30 KJV] 30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Hobie: Who do you think "ye" is?

Hobie, do you count yourself among these who are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption?

 

[Yeshua1]

Which Baptist?

Particular ones of course!

 

[Yeshua1]

Post #84

It is not clear that my works will gain me entry into heaven or my lack of works will justify me being denied entry into heaven.

Please point out to me exactly the word, words or phrase that leads you to conclude that Christ will deny His children entry to where He is or that His children did not build their house upon a rock. Also, provide scripture supporting your position.

The entirety of the Gospel message is that Jesus Christ was born to save His people from the penalty of their sins via His sacrificial death on the cross.

Praise God, when the Holy Spirit convicted me of my sins, He sealed me as a part of the body of Christ, the ekklēsia.

[2Co 1:22 KJV] 22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
Hobie: Who do you think "us" is?

[Eph 1:13 KJV] 13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Hobie: Who do you think "ye" is?

[Eph 4:30 KJV] 30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Hobie: Who do you think "ye" is?

Hobie, do you count yourself among these who are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption?

That class of people that He cited were omes Jesus said that he Never knew thjem!

 

[Hobie]

Post #84

It is not clear that my works will gain me entry into heaven or my lack of works will justify me being denied entry into heaven.

Please point out to me exactly the word, words or phrase that leads you to conclude that Christ will deny His children entry to where He is or that His children did not build their house upon a rock. Also, provide scripture supporting your position.

The entirety of the Gospel message is that Jesus Christ was born to save His people from the penalty of their sins via His sacrificial death on the cross.

Praise God, when the Holy Spirit convicted me of my sins, He sealed me as a part of the body of Christ, the ekklēsia.

[2Co 1:22 KJV] 22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
Hobie: Who do you think "us" is?

[Eph 1:13 KJV] 13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Hobie: Who do you think "ye" is?

[Eph 4:30 KJV] 30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Hobie: Who do you think "ye" is?

Hobie, do you count yourself among these who are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption?

Lets go back to the original question. Are you including all the Jews such as Paul, Peter and the rest of the apostles? Let get a clear answer on that first.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

Lets go back to the original question. Are you including all the Jews such as Paul, Peter and the rest of the apostles? Let get a clear answer on that first.

Firstly, I hope we agree that Matthew 22:1-14 is commonly known as the parable of the wedding feat. Further more that most definitions of a parable generally fit the following discription:
par•a•ble păr′ə-bəl
►

• n.
  A simple story illustrating a moral or religious lesson.
• n.
  A comparison; similitude. (likeness; resemblance)
• n.
  Specifically An allegorical (figurative treatment of one subject under the guise of another) relation or representation from which a moral is drawn for instruction; an apologue (a moral fable). (...) a

More at Wordnik from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition.

Since parables are not teaching historical facts, I have no right or responsibility to attach individuals to the principles being taught.

I believe that "Paul, Peter and the rest of the apostles", except perhaps Judas, are with Christ. This believe has nothing to do with this parable.

Hopefully this is a satisfactory answer to your question.

 

[Adonia]

Free will Gospel of Rome!

Yes, free will. Where each person is free to choose or reject. At Calvary one thief chose God and the other rejected him - and that biblical passage can not be read in any other way.

 

[Hobie]

NONE in that group were ever saved!

So let me get this straight from you to see if I am getting your post correct, are you including the inspired writers of the Bible?

 

[Yeshua1]

So let me get this straight from you to see if I am getting your post correct, are you including the inspired writers of the Bible?

The passage that was quoted did not include them, as ONLY Judas was not saved among Apostles!

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes, free will. Where each person is free to choose or reject. At Calvary one thief chose God and the other rejected him - and that biblical passage can not be read in any other way.

Yes, He showed His election to be true!

 

[Hobie]

The passage that was quoted did not include them, as ONLY Judas was not saved among Apostles!

The question was on whether Jews are left out.

 

[Yeshua1]

The question was on whether Jews are left out.

They are saved by the same Messiah and by same Gospel Gentiles are!

 

[Hobie]

They are saved by the same Messiah and by same Gospel Gentiles are!

As I said and quoted text, the Gentiles are grafted in.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Yes, free will. Where each person is free to choose or reject. At Calvary one thief chose God and the other rejected him - and that biblical passage can not be read in any other way.

Typical Catholic answer ... let me ask you, had the thief any inkling that he would go to hell because of his wicked ways and how would he have come by that idea that his salvation would involve repentance?

 

[Yeshua1]

Only the SDA is the one true church

Well, Sda, Mormons, JW, and Rome will have to duke that out!