WHO says no covid travel restrictions any more

[JonC]

It is the people pushing vaccine mandates and vaccines for kids and endless lockdowns and theft of freedom are opposing choice! It is one thing to reluctantly use a product made by untrustworthy people, it is another thing to be forced to use it. When I see say, something like 400 million unborn people destroyed over a decade the people responsible would not be the first on my list to go to to save anybody.

I'm not talking about people pushing vacvines. This was not our conversation (you are are changing your stand).

I am also anti-abortion.

What I am asking about is your position about saving the lives of millions of children by using vaccines, medications, and procedures developed by these organizations you call evil and approved by governments you call evil.

Would you advocate letting those millions of children die rather than saving their lives via medical treatments developed by secular companies and approved by secular governments?

If it is so wrong that people would be reluctant then what makes it right?

Would it be better to just let millions of children die?

 

[dad2]

I'm not talking about people pushing vacvines. This was not our conversation (you are are changing your stand).

I am also anti-abortion.

What I am asking about is your position about saving the lives of millions of children by using vaccines, medications, and procedures developed by these organizations you call evil and approved by governments you call evil.

Would you advocate letting those millions of children die rather than saving their lives via medical treatments developed by secular companies and approved by secular governments?

If it is so wrong that people would be reluctant then what makes it right?

Would it be better to just let millions of children die?

What we are talking about are lying murderers that try to force people to trust them and buy their products, while suppressing truth and alternatives. You seem to be suggesting that only that sort of company and politician and media and medical system could exist, therefore we must blindly obey? There is something in the bible about choose the good and reject the evil. If there are some good bits in that manure pile that some people need or want to use, well why would I judge? The thing is that they are telling others that all that is on the menu is the manure.

 

[JonC]

What we are talking about are lying murderers that try to force people to trust them and buy their products, while suppressing truth and alternatives. You seem to be suggesting that only that sort of company and politician and media and medical system could exist, therefore we must blindly obey? There is something in the bible about choose the good and reject the evil. If there are some good bits in that manure pile that some people need or want to use, well why would I judge? The thing is that they are telling others that all that is on the menu is the manure.

No we were not. We were talking about vaccines.

You indicated they should not be taken because pharmaceutical companies and governments are evil. You compared my statement that God is a God to means to advocating Hitler.

I am asking you if you believe those millions of children who are alive today should have rejected the treatment because of the companies that produced them and the government that aporoved them.

If so, then how is this different from abortionists? If not, then why now?

 

[dad2]

No we were not. We were talking about vaccines.

You indicated they should not be taken because pharmaceutical companies and governments are evil. You compared my statement that God is a God to means to advocating Hitler.

I am asking you if you believe those millions of children who are alive today should have rejected the treatment because of the companies that produced them and the government that aporoved them.

If so, then how is this different from abortionists? If not, then why now?

We were talking about a lot of things. The millions of children alive who were not among the millions of children killed in the womb would be wise about how they deal with liars and murderers. I do not think most people should have taken the pseudo vaccines. Usually children are not the ones who reject treatments, one would hope the parents and others that care for them would do that. Instead we see the experimental vaccines being pushed to children. Yes, of course the tyrants trying to mandate the lockdowns and vaccines and the whole agenda are to be compared with nazis. That is one reason many people want Nuremberg style trials. Yes we should utterly reject what those advocating child sacrifice say! Yes we should distrust companies involved in thousands of legal cases and who have had to pay huge settlements for injuring people and fraud etc.
But as I said all these things starting to befall the world are probably the beginning of great judgments to come. The direction people will likely continue to go is that road to hell and horrors and slavery to the government and the Satan incarnate leader to come. Many believers think that we are on that road of no return.

 

[JonC]

We were talking about a lot of things. The millions of children alive who were not among the millions of children killed in the womb would be wise about how they deal with liars and murderers. I do not think most people should have taken the pseudo vaccines. Usually children are not the ones who reject treatments, one would hope the parents and others that care for them would do that. Instead we see the experimental vaccines being pushed to children. Yes, of course the tyrants trying to mandate the lockdowns and vaccines and the whole agenda are to be compared with nazis. That is one reason many people want Nuremberg style trials. Yes we should utterly reject what those advocating child sacrifice say! Yes we should distrust companies involved in thousands of legal cases and who have had to pay huge settlements for injuring people and fraud etc.
But as I said all these things starting to befall the world are probably the beginning of great judgments to come. The direction people will likely continue to go is that road to hell and horrors and slavery to the government and the Satan incarnate leader to come. Many believers think that we are on that road of no return.

Another interesting fact is Scripture refers to pagan king as God's anointed. God is a God of means.


Millions of children are alive today because of the measles mumps rubella (mmr) vaccine.

Would you have preferred the mmr vacvine have been banned and those children die?

 

[dad2]

Another interesting fact is Scripture refers to pagan king as God's anointed. God is a God of means.


Millions of children are alive today because of the measles mumps rubella (mmr) vaccine.

Would you have preferred the mmr vacvine have been banned and those children die?

It is better to trust in God than to put confidence in man. If people do feel uncomfortable with experimental known killer pseudo vaccines and the tyranny associated with that, they have every right to choose. The people denying choice are the ones you seek to justify and defend. Rape is not consent. The issue is not whether sex is good, but whether it is a choice.

 

[JonC]

It is better to trust in God than to put confidence in man. If people do feel uncomfortable with experimental known killer pseudo vaccines and the tyranny associated with that, they have every right to choose. The people denying choice are the ones you seek to justify and defend. Rape is not consent. The issue is not whether sex is good, but whether it is a choice.

I agree. This is why I was vaccinated and I'm sure it may be why others ate not.

But this was not my question.

Do you believe that parents should have rejected the mmr vaccines for their children even though this would have allowed millions of children to die?

Should parents reject in vivo surgery even though it could save their child's life?

Is there a moral difference between supporting abortion and withholding medical care to a child?

 

[dad2]

I agree. This is why I was vaccinated and I'm sure it may be why others ate not.

But this was not my question.

Do you believe that parents should have rejected the mmr vaccines for their children even though this would have allowed millions of children to die?

Should parents reject in vivo surgery even though it could save their child's life?

Is there a moral difference between supporting abortion and withholding medical care to a child?

That is a loaded question. You assume that millions of children would die if there were no vaccines. Children were not even in a high risk group. How about how many millions might not have died if they were given life saving early treatment? How many might have been better off if some sort of natural immunity resulted in not having the lockdowns? How many might have been saved if the focus was on protecting the at risk rather than putting all under virtual house arrest? How many might be saved if the crooked companies that were responsible for the testing had released all results right away so that people could make actual informed choices? How many may yet still die of the vaccines because no real long term tests have been done? Etc etc.
The issue was not withholding care, but what sort of care a thinking loving parent might choose!

 

[JonC]

That is a loaded question. You assume that millions of children would die if there were no vaccines. Children were not even in a high risk group. How about how many millions might not have died if they were given life saving early treatment? How many might have been better off if some sort of natural immunity resulted in not having the lockdowns? How many might have been saved if the focus was on protecting the at risk rather than putting all under virtual house arrest? How many might be saved if the crooked companies that were responsible for the testing had released all results right away so that people could make actual informed choices? How many may yet still die of the vaccines because no real long term tests have been done? Etc etc.
The issue was not withholding care, but what sort of care a thinking loving parent might choose!

There is no question that the measles, mumps and rubella vaccines have saved millions.

It is about withholding care.

You say that vaccines are evil because they are produced by secular companies and approved by secular governments.

This means you believe open heart surgery evil, mmr vaccines evil, covid vaccines evil, heart valve replacement evil, cancer treatments evil, blood pressure medications evil, .....etc.

Or you are simply inconsistent, taking Scripture out of context to support your agenda which is driven by your personal politics.

Which is it?

Would you rather see children die rather than the government approve a vaccine that actually used fetal cell lines (the rubella vaccine, the rabies vaccine)?

As for me, you know where I stand. My faith is in God, and I know He is a God of means because of Scripture.

 

[dad2]

There is no question that the measles, mumps and rubella vaccines have saved millions.

It is about withholding care.

You say that vaccines are evil because they are produced by secular companies and approved by secular governments.

This means you believe open heart surgery evil, mmr vaccines evil, covid vaccines evil, heart valve replacement evil, cancer treatments evil, blood pressure medications evil, .....etc.

Or you are simply inconsistent, taking Scripture out of context to support your agenda which is driven by your personal politics.

Which is it?

Would you rather see children die rather than the government approve a vaccine that actually used fetal cell lines (the rubella vaccine, the rabies vaccine)?

As for me, you know where I stand. My faith is in God, and I know He is a God of means because of Scripture.

It doesn't work that way. We do not have to accept anything the medical system has on offer. Nor do we need to take advice from governments that kill millions of children! They claim that saves lives also! Just because some doctor or politician tries to get you to take a sex change operation does not mean we should do it. They could use the same line as you, 'oh, the medical system saves millions, so don't question it'. There are thousands of doctors saying forget that vaccine it is no good. So how is it your personal agenda says only believe the other doctors, otherwise we don't want to 'save children'!?

 

[JonC]

It doesn't work that way. We do not have to accept anything the medical system has on offer. Nor do we need to take advice from governments that kill millions of children! They claim that saves lives also! Just because some doctor or politician tries to get you to take a sex change operation does not mean we should do it. They could use the same line as you, 'oh, the medical system saves millions, so don't question it'. There are thousands of doctors saying forget that vaccine it is no good. So how is it your personal agenda says only believe the other doctors, otherwise we don't want to 'save children'!?

It does work that way.

You say we should consider covid vaccinations evil. Why? Because they are produced by pharmaceutical companies and approved by governments.

This would apply to any medical advancement produced by pharmaceutical companies and approved by governments.

You twist Scripture not because you believe it applies (you obviously do not or you would apply it without prejudice). You twist it because it suits your politics.

 

[dad2]

It does work that way.

You say we should consider covid vaccinations evil. Why? Because they are produced by pharmaceutical companies and approved by governments.

This would apply to any medical advancement produced by pharmaceutical companies and approved by governments.

You twist Scripture not because you believe it applies (you obviously do not or you would apply it without prejudice). You twist it because it suits your politics.

No scripture say we need to trust mass murderers like it or not, and take poisons known to kill people, produced by known frauds, to kids who don't need it. Not sure why you find simple truth to be against your religion. Abortion is approved by governments as are sex changes for young people, etc. We are not robots with no choice or intellect of our own. If a company is less than savoury, yet we need a product it has, that does not mean we have to take anything and everything they sell. Nor does it mean it should be forced on us. You seem to be suggesting that if take anything at all, we need to accept all things they offer. No. We operate according to our faith. Some may need certain things and choose certain things, while others may prefer to pass. The lockdown/vaccine/control the population agenda is rejected by scientists and professionals. There is no need to take your amateur word that unless we bend over and take whatever they would like to give us, we are killing children and the sky will fall.

 

[JonC]

No scripture say we need to trust mass murderers like it or not, and take poisons known to kill people, produced by known frauds, to kids who don't need it. Not sure why you find simple truth to be against your religion. Abortion is approved by governments as are sex changes for young people, etc. We are not robots with no choice or intellect of our own. If a company is less than savoury, yet we need a product it has, that does not mean we have to take anything and everything they sell. Nor does it mean it should be forced on us. You seem to be suggesting that if take anything at all, we need to accept all things they offer. No. We operate according to our faith. Some may need certain things and choose certain things, while others may prefer to pass. The lockdown/vaccine/control the population agenda is rejected by scientists and professionals. There is no need to take your amateur word that unless we bend over and take whatever they would like to give us, we are killing children and the sky will fall.

I am not talking about trusting murderers. Also, Pfizer-BioTechand Moderna are not murderous companies.

BioNTechnologies is in an environment where abortion is illegal.

To be honest, I am not sure that those advocating abortion are any worse than those who would allow children to die for their politics. But that's a different topic.

I am talking about trusting God and not striving against Him.

What pagan king does Scripture call "God's anointed"? Was God wrong for using a pagan government?

 

[dad2]

I am not talking about trusting murderers. Also, Pfizer-BioTechand Moderna are not murderous companies.

BioNTechnologies is in an environment where abortion is illegal.

To be honest, I am not sure that those advocating abortion are any worse than those who would allow children to die for their politics. But that's a different topic.

I am talking about trusting God and not striving against Him.

What pagan king does Scripture call "God's anointed"? Was God wrong for using a pagan government?

Any company related to mass murdering babies is a murderer. Then there was the injury cases in court. Thousands of cases. Fraud also. You have failed to support your claim that millions of children would die? We wait.

 

[JonC]

Any company related to mass murdering babies is a murderer. Then there was the injury cases in court. Thousands of cases. Fraud also. You have failed to support your claim that millions of children would die? We wait.

Neither company is related to mass murdering babies.

But those who would deny life saving medical treatment to children because they don't like pharmaceutical companies or hovernments may very well be linked to mass murder should they prevail in their agenda.

 

[dad2]

Neither company is related to mass murdering babies.

But those who would deny life saving medical treatment to children because they don't like pharmaceutical companies or hovernments may very well be linked to mass murder should they prevail in their agenda.

Except I already gave the links showing the opposite. Unless you are claiming morning after and abortion inducing drugs don't count?

 

[JonC]

Except I already gave the links showing the opposite. Unless you are claiming morning after and abortion inducing drugs don't count?

I am claiming Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna do not provide abortions (to my knowledge they don't make pills that cause abortion).

Regardless, it sounds like you are willing to allow millions of children to die rather than advocate the use of medical treatments if a secular company is involved.

Do you at least see the hypocrisy in your position? Killing children is a bad thing, whether via treatment or refusing treatment.

You are the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[dad2]

I am claiming Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna do not provide abortions (to my knowledge they don't make pills that cause abortion).

Regardless, it sounds like you are willing to allow millions of children to die rather than advocate the use of medical treatments if a secular company is involved.

Do you at least see the hypocrisy in your position? Killing children is a bad thing, whether via treatment or refusing treatment.

You are the pot calling the kettle black.

https://labeling.pfizer.com/showlabeling.aspx?id=559

CYTOTEC- misoprostol tablet - Pfizer

CYTOTEC (MISOPROSTOL) ADMINISTRATION TO WOMEN WHO ARE PREGNANT CAN CAUSE BIRTH DEFECTS, ABORTION, PREMATURE BIRTH OR UTERINE RUPTURE.

https://www.pfizermedicalinformation.com/en-us/cytotec

CYTOTEC®(misoprostol) | Pfizer Medical Information - US

CYTOTEC (MISOPROSTOL) ADMINISTRATION TO WOMEN WHO ARE PREGNANT CAN CAUSE BIRTH DEFECTS, ABORTION, PREMATURE BIRTH OR UTERINE RUPTURE. UTERINE RUPTURE HAS BEEN ...

By the way, once again, support the claim millions of children will die without the vaccine?

 

[JonC]

https://labeling.pfizer.com/showlabeling.aspx?id=559

CYTOTEC- misoprostol tablet - Pfizer

CYTOTEC (MISOPROSTOL) ADMINISTRATION TO WOMEN WHO ARE PREGNANT CAN CAUSE BIRTH DEFECTS, ABORTION, PREMATURE BIRTH OR UTERINE RUPTURE.

https://www.pfizermedicalinformation.com/en-us/cytotec

CYTOTEC®(misoprostol) | Pfizer Medical Information - US

CYTOTEC (MISOPROSTOL) ADMINISTRATION TO WOMEN WHO ARE PREGNANT CAN CAUSE BIRTH DEFECTS, ABORTION, PREMATURE BIRTH OR UTERINE RUPTURE. UTERINE RUPTURE HAS BEEN ...

By the way, once again, support the claim millions of children will die without the vaccine?

Rabies, measles, mumps, rubella, polio....you believe these vaccines are all fake, that they did not save lives?????

What about in vivo treatments that have allowed children to live? You believe these are fake??? What about diabetes medications???? Fake????

That you are unable to recognize lives have been saved through medical advancements by companies approved by governments you distrust is bewildering.

What is the difference between you rejecting these people who are alive today and abortions rejecting the unborn are human beings?


In my view, there is no difference between killing via withholding treatment and killing via abortion. Both sides are guilty of murder, or a murderous agenda.

The irony is the one case where Scripture addresses abortion the child is treated as property and the crime a theft rather than murder. But allowing people to die for your own agenda is actually addressed as wrong in Scripture.

 

[dad2]

Rabies, measles, mumps, rubella, polio....you believe these vaccines are all fake, that they did not save lives?????

What about in vivo treatments that have allowed children to live? You believe these are fake??? What about diabetes medications???? Fake????

That you are unable to recognize lives have been saved through medical advancements by companies approved by governments you distrust is bewildering.

What is the difference between you rejecting these people who are alive today and abortions rejecting the unborn are human beings?


In my view, there is no difference between killing via withholding treatment and killing via abortion. Both sides are guilty of murder, or a murderous agenda.

The irony is the one case where Scripture addresses abortion the child is treated as property and the crime a theft rather than murder. But allowing people to die for your own agenda is actually addressed as wrong in Scripture.

Strawman argument. You seek to lump all companies and all medical treatments in together as a take it or leave it package. No. We eshew the evil and choose the good. The people that want to remove our choice are neck deep in supporting or partaking in the baby killing industry. Trudeau,Biden, the FDA, etc etc etc.

Here is a doctor explaining how the covid agenda is a failure.
"
In the end, the truth will always be revealed, and the truth about the coronavirus policy is beginning to be revealed. When the destructive concepts collapse one by one, there is nothing left but to tell the experts who led the management of the pandemic – we told you so.

Two years late, you finally realize that a respiratory virus cannot be defeated and that any such attempt is doomed to fail. You do not admit it, because you have admitted almost no mistake in the last two years, but in retrospect it is clear that you have failed miserably in almost all of your actions, and even the media is already having a hard time covering your shame.

You refused to admit that the infection comes in waves that fade by themselves, despite years of observations and scientific knowledge. You insisted on attributing every decline of a wave solely to your actions, and so through false propaganda “you overcame the plague.” And again you defeated it, and again and again and again.

You refused to admit that mass testing is ineffective, despite your own contingency plans explicitly stating so (“Pandemic Influenza Health System Preparedness Plan, 2007”, p. 26).

You refused to admit that recovery is more protective than a vaccine, despite previous knowledge and observations showing that non-recovered vaccinated people are more likely to be infected than recovered people. You refused to admit that the vaccinated are contagious despite the observations. Based on this, you hoped to achieve herd immunity by vaccination — and you failed in that as well.

You insisted on ignoring the fact that the disease is dozens of times more dangerous for risk groups and older adults, than for young people who are not in risk groups, despite the knowledge that came from China as early as 2020.

You refused to adopt the “Barrington Declaration”, signed by more than 60,000 scientists and medical professionals, or other common sense programs. You chose to ridicule, slander, distort and discredit them. Instead of the right programs and people, you have chosen professionals who lack relevant training for pandemic management (physicists as chief government advisers, veterinarians, security officers, media personnel, and so on).

You have not set up an effective system for reporting side effects from the vaccines and reports on side effects have even been deleted from your Facebook page. Doctors avoid linking side effects to the vaccine, lest you persecute them as you did to some of their colleagues. You have ignored many reports of changes in menstrual intensity and menstrual cycle times. You hid data that allows for objective and proper research (for example, you removed the data on passengers at Ben Gurion Airport). Instead, you chose to publish non-objective articles together with senior Pfizer executives on the effectiveness and safety of vaccines."
Ehud Qimron’s Powerful Letter to the Israeli Ministry of Health