Who won the debate tonight?

[Don]

The following is quoted from a previous post, but I removed the identification because I'm not directing this at that particular poster; I'm simply using his statement, which is echoed by many.

The fact is that Trump is not for abortion and I am not sure abut Gay marriage.

The "fact" is that Trump has been noncommittal about gay marriage.
The "fact" is that Trump has said he is not for abortion; but what evidence do we have that he is not for abortion? Or will do anything about it?
-- Remember: abortion is primarily addressed at the congressional or Supreme Court. The only argument you can make is that Trump could propose conservative judges; but those still have to be approved by congress.

Do I *know* Hillary will be bad? Yes.
Do I *believe* Trump will be no different? Yes.

In the fable of the scorpion and the frog (or the wolf, depending on who's telling the fable), the scorpion says he stung the frog because it was his nature. I expect Trump to be Trump. I expect him to focus on what he knows, which is the economy and business. Social issues? I don't expect any changes.

 

[HankD]

A Fox News executive sent a memo Tuesday afternoon reminding television producers and the politics team that unscientific online polls "do not meet our editorial standards."

Dana Blanton, vice president of public-opinion research at Fox News, explained in the memo obtained by Business Insider that "online 'polls' like the one on Drudge, Time, etc. where people can opt-in or self-select … are really just for fun."

"As most of the publications themselves clearly state, the sample obviously can’t be representative of the electorate because they only reflect the views of those Internet users who have chosen to participate," Blanton wrote.

The Fox News executive noted users who participated had to have had internet access, been online at the time, be Drudge fans, and self-select to participate.

"Another problem — we know some campaigns/groups of supporters encourage people to vote in online polls and flood the results," she wrote. "These quickie click items do not meet our editorial standards."

http://www.businessinsider.com/fox-news-online-debate-polls-trump-drudge-2016-9

In other words - we don't like them because they haven't passed though out "scientific" hands (Foxie News no exception).

HankD

 

[InTheLight]

In other words - we don't like them because they haven't passed though out scientific hands (Foxie News no exception).

HankD

Hank, surely you of anyone on BB knows that a hacker could write a script to pack votes on these online polls. Or else someone could vote, delete cookies, vote, delete cookies, vote, etc.

 

[InTheLight]

The following is quoted from a previous post, but I removed the identification because I'm not directing this at that particular poster; I'm simply using his statement, which is echoed by many.

The "fact" is that Trump has been noncommittal about gay marriage.
The "fact" is that Trump has said he is not for abortion; but what evidence do we have that he is not for abortion? Or will do anything about it?

We KNOW he's all in favor of genderless bathrooms.

 

[HankD]

Hank, surely you of anyone on BB knows that a hacker could write a script to pack votes on these online polls. Or else someone could vote, delete cookies, vote, delete cookies, vote, etc.

Yes, I am a software architect/engineer and I know I could do it but - maybe they have, maybe they haven't.

However just because cookies have been manipulated, altered or deleted doesn't matter anymore, there are many ways to detect reentry, fraud, etc...

HankD

 

[JonC]

So say you.

HankD

Well duh...I just said it.

I said 8 things. Which do you find disagreement with?:

1. Warmongering is wrong.
2. That I don't believe the GOP is defined by warmongering.
3. That some people associate the GOP with warmongering.
4. That it is not fair to reduce sin down to "abortion".
5. That we are accountable for our vote, for our actions, for what we support.
6. That we are called to holiness.
7. That we are not to stand against evil except that stand be for God.
8. That Christians should be identified not for what we stand against but by our stand in Christ.

 

[Zaac]

Hank, surely you of anyone on BB knows that a hacker could write a script to pack votes on these online polls. Or else someone could vote, delete cookies, vote, delete cookies, vote, etc.

Pretty much. That's why, unless the polls are being done using statistically proven sampling methods, they don't mean much other than somebody got some responses to some questions.

 

[InTheLight]

Yes, I am a software architect/engineer and I know I could do it but - maybe they have, maybe they haven't.

However just because cookies have been manipulated, altered or deleted doesn't matter anymore, there are many ways to detect reentry, fraud, etc...

HankD

Vote on your computer at work. Vote on your phone using work's WiFi. Turn off the WiFi on your phone and vote again. Go home and do it again. There's six votes that look like they've come from six different people with no manipulation of anything, really.

 

[HankD]

Well duh...I just said it.

I said 8 things. Which do you find disagreement with?:

1. Warmongering is wrong.
2. That I don't believe the GOP is defined by warmongering.
3. That some people associate the GOP with warmongering.
4. That it is not fair to reduce sin down to "abortion".
5. That we are accountable for our vote, for our actions, for what we support.
6. That we are called to holiness.
7. That we are not to stand against evil except that stand be for God.
8. That Christians should be identified not for what we stand against but by our stand in Christ.

That you said the eight things.

HankD

 

[HankD]

Vote on your computer at work. Vote on your phone using work's WiFi. Turn off the WiFi on your phone and vote again. Go home and do it again. There's six votes that look like they've come from six different people with no manipulation of anything, really.

"Methinks thou dost protest too much".

HankD

 

[JonC]

That you said the eight things.

HankD

Well, you are wrong (I'm the one who said it). But perhaps you can help a brother out. Exactly what part do you disagree with?

 

[InTheLight]

"Methinks thou dost protest too much".

HankD

Accepting online polls as being valid says a lot about the Trump campaign. If they are willing to trust online polls as being accurate, what else will they accept as being accurate?

 

[HankD]

Then help a brother out. Exactly what part do you disagree with?

The parts don't matter except perhaps that I am not a Republican and/or I don't need anyone but the Holy Spirit to tell me what I am called to, to whom I am accountable and for what/whom I need to be identified with.

You asked.

HankD

 

[HankD]

Accepting online polls as being valid says a lot about the Trump campaign. If they are willing to trust online polls as being accurate, what else will they accept as being accurate?

The general election.

HankD

 

[TCassidy]

Exactly what part do you disagree with?

I am not Hank, but I will take a shot at it.

2. That I don't believe the GOP is defined by warmongering.

Which assumes the GOP is guilty of warmongering. Assumes facts not in evidence.

3. That some people associate the GOP with warmongering.

"Some people" believe the moon is made of green cheese, but that does not make it so.

4. That it is not fair to reduce sin down to "abortion".

Nor is it fair to equate the murder of 135,000 innocents every day with other, lesser, evils. Especially in view of the fact that abortion is racist in that blacks in this country make up 13% of the population and 36% of the abortions. It is not a stretch to see that as genocide.

But the Democrat/Hillary Party platform is clear. They support and even commend infanticide and the resultant genocide.

8. That Christians should be identified not for what we stand against but by our stand in Christ.

I can't help but think you have created a false dichotomy. Much of our stand in Christ is to be against what He is against.

How's that?

 

[JonC]

The parts don't matter except perhaps that I am not a Republican and/or I don't need anyone but the Holy Spirit to tell me what I am called to, whom I am accountable and for what/whom I need to be identified with.

You asked.

HankD

Interesting. You take exception to absolutely NOTHING that I have said, but you seem offended by the image you conjure up in your mind. You know, they have a name for that….not sure what it is but I’m sure they have a name for that.

I never said that you were a Republican. I don’t know your political affiliation…but like many here, with that statement I assume you are “independent”. I am a Republican. Like I suggested to TCassidy – God is not one to take our side on these issues. You may think that the Holy Spirit is “telling” you to vote for Trump, but I seriously doubt He speaks such direct revelations in that manner. We are to be obedient to God. Concentrate on that when you decide what to support and I think you'll be OK.

I never said that you were accountable to me, or anyone else. We are accountable to God for how we use what we have been given in this life (to include our voices). I agree.

My question is not what you believe, or what you think I may believe, but where you actually disagree with what I said (I’ll tell you what I believe…you don’t have to make things up).

You answered.

JonC

 

[Crabtownboy]

Accepting online polls as being valid says a lot about the Trump campaign. If they are willing to trust online polls as being accurate, what else will they accept as being accurate?

True. Online polls are practically meaningless. Anyone from anywhere in the world can vote easily and often in online polls. I checked this out and found is so easy to vote numerous times in an online poll. We have no idea who is voting, US citizen or someone in another country, what their age is 103 or 6. The bottom line is that they are worthless in determining what is really going on in the mind of potential legal voters.

 

[Zaac]

Nor is it fair to equate the murder of 135,000 innocents every day with other, lesser, evils. Especially in view of the fact that abortion is racist in that blacks in this country make up 13% of the population and 36% of the abortions. It is not a stretch to see that as genocide.

People are racist. Policies are racist. Abortion policies can be racist. But the act of abortion isn't any more racist than is the act of divorce.
From 1970 to 2010, the population of Blacks in the United States increased steadily from 22 million to nearly 39 million in 2010. Abortion in the black community isn't leading to genocide.

Now in the white community that just might be the case as white births continue to slow and there are fewer births and more deaths. That's one of the things leading to a non-white population majority in the near future.

But the Democrat/Hillary Party platform is clear. They support and even commend infanticide and the resultant genocide.

They do it in the womb. The GOP waits to starve them when they are out of the womb.

I can't help but think you have created a false dichotomy. Much of our stand in Christ is to be against what He is against.

Yet many evangelicals in the GOP have supported a Mormon who rejects Christ and now a man who believes he doesn't need God's forgiveness.

How's that?

 

[Zaac]

Nor is it fair to equate the murder of 135,000 innocents every day with other, lesser, evils. Especially in view of the fact that abortion is racist in that blacks in this country make up 13% of the population and 36% of the abortions. It is not a stretch to see that as genocide.

People are racist. Policies are racist. Abortion policies can be racist. But the act of abortion isn't any more racist than is the act of divorce.
From 1970 to 2010, the population of Blacks in the United States increased steadily from 22 million to nearly 39 million in 2010. Abortion in the black community isn't leading to genocide.

Now in the white community that just might be the case as white births continue to slow and there are fewer births and more deaths. That's one of the things leading to a non-white population majority in the near future.

But the Democrat/Hillary Party platform is clear. They support and even commend infanticide and the resultant genocide.

They do it in the womb. The GOP waits to starve them when they are out of the womb.

I can't help but think you have created a false dichotomy. Much of our stand in Christ is to be against what He is against.

Yet many evangelicals in the GOP have supported a Mormon who rejects Christ and now a man who believes he doesn't need God's forgiveness.

How's that?

 

[JonC]

I am not Hank, but I will take a shot at it.

Cool....I always like your shots....I'll do my best at deflecting them (correcting where you got me wrong)

Which assumes the GOP is guilty of warmongering. Assumes facts not in evidence.

That is an assumption, Brother. When I said that I don’t believe the GOP is defined by warmongering, I was not assuming that they were guilty of warmongering. The connection is not there.

"Some people" believe the moon is made of green cheese, but that does not make it so.

Sources please...give us one person alive today (older than 5) who believes the moon is made of cheese Just kidding...I get what you are saying, which was my point. Some people believe the GOP is guilty of warmongering (these people will act and speak in accord to their belief). Of course it doesn’t make it so. It doesn't make it not so either. My comment was about what people believe in terms of how they act or vote.

Nor is it fair to equate the murder of 135,000 innocents every day with other, lesser, evils. Especially in view of the fact that abortion is racist in that blacks in this country make up 13% of the population and 36% of the abortions. It is not a stretch to see that as genocide.


But the Democrat/Hillary Party platform is clear. They support and even commend infanticide and the resultant genocide.

My statement that it is not fair to reduce sin down to “abortion” (or any other act) does not speak to the Democrat Party. I already said that I cannot fathom how a Christian could even consider voting Democrat for that very reason.

I can't help but think you have created a false dichotomy. Much of our stand in Christ is to be against what He is against.

I thought that I may be creating a false dichotomy prior to posting that it is not what we stand against but Who we stand for (our stand in Christ). The reason I disagree (and went forward with the statement) is that I believe there is a difference between simply standing against something and opposing something for the stand we take in Christ. The difference is the force behind the stand. When it comes to abortion, our stance really should be different from pro-life atheists. We are trying to live holy lives, trying to be like Christ, trying to have that mind in us that is in Christ…that is our stand which of course manifests itself in the form of opposing abortion, and warmongering, and abuse, and drunkenness, etc.

So no, I don't think it a false dichotomy. The reason is Paul's words that it is not us but Christ in us. Men may do the same things but for very different reasons. We need to stand in Christ, this stand will materialize in how we act, and how we vote, even when we differ. This is because we are not perfect but moving from glory to glory. Our motivation should always be Christ.

How's that?

It was OK I guess. At least we didn't call each other heretics or communists, or anything like that.