Who won the debate tonight?

[poncho]

Couldn't be because you've spent the last few years telling Christians that to be a "real" Christian like you that's what we all should do, could it? Whoa, did I just type that out loud to?

I gotta get control of my fingers.

 

[poncho]

Of course it's not. You can't build an argument to communicate with someone if they have a completely different basis of reality.

I'll be back tomorrow night to present you with the facts I know from my own diligent research that you'd never know from reading a couple REDSTATE articles and watching CNN. I can practically guarantee you won't be willing to put in near as much effort as I have to learn them. Even though all you have to do is sit back drink your coffee and watch a few videos and learn. I'll make the experience as easy and painless as I can. I promise.

So get your excuses. insults and condescending remarks (that aren't arguments) ready in the morning because we're going to find out just how important facts really are to you.

 

[evangelist6589]

Yes, "in the world, not of it.." If the focus is on that last part, then I agree. I also think that since we call God our Father, and since God will judge impartially according to what we do, how we live our lives, and those things that we choose to support by our actions (e.g., our vote), that we should conduct ourselves in fear during our lifetime knowing that we are purchased with the blood of Christ. We should not so quickly throw our voice behind a candidate because we are "in the world" if we believe the platform immoral.

I am not saying that it is wrong for a Christian to vote for Donald Trump. I am saying that when we say a Christian should vote for Trump we have traded the gospel for Christ for another gospel all together. Again, Christians need to stop playing politics with their faith.

Remember we were not voting for a pastor but for a president. I think this is the crucial mistake many make. They think we are voting for a pastor when we are not.

 

[evangelist6589]

In this election, there is none. Not even third party.

Its wrong not to vote. Christians need to get involved.

 

[evangelist6589]

I don't see what Jesus' prayer for his disciples has to do with voting.

Suppose there was a situation where both candidates were pro abortion. You still voting for one of those candidates?

Suppose candidate A was pro abortion and pro gay marriage.
Candidate B was pro abortion but was for marriage between one man and one woman. You voting for B?

Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo

What if what if what if..... The fact is that Trump is not for abortion and I am not sure abut Gay marriage.

 

[JonC]

Remember we were not voting for a pastor but for a president. I think this is the crucial mistake many make. They think we are voting for a pastor when we are not.

No one believes they are voting for a pastor, but many of us reject the notion that faith is something that should be silent and ineffective.

Let me ask you this, Evan - Do you believe that we are responsible for our actions? If so, then if you believed that supporting one agenda was supporting an evil (by evil I mean an act against God), would you do it anyway? If you don't believe we are responsible for our actions, then what do you do with 1 Peter 1:14-19?

You used the verse that we in the world, not of it, to support your assertion that Christians should vote for Trump. Do you realize that it means the exact opposite? In John 17:16 Jesus prays for His disciples who are not of the world, that they may be kept from sin. Notice He did not pray that God use their sin to advance the Kingdom. He prayed that they may be kept from sin.

Those early church men and women who refused to denounce Christ and suffered the consequences in this life were not wrong for their actions (even when it cost them the lives of their families). They were not counted as murders even thought by denouncing their faith they could have saved their lives. If supporting a political candidate and his/her platform is also a denouncement of your faith, then I think that you need to be a bit more cautious in your use of Scripture to encourage others to ungodliness. I'm not saying it is wrong for you to vote for Trump. But I am saying that it is wrong for you to pretend that Christians are mandated by Scripture to cast their vote for a viable candidate instead of using their vote in faithful obedience to God.

The issue is that there are some who strongly believe that God is not powerless in the lives of Christians. It is not about voting for a pastor (or even just a man for President). It is about what platform, what causes, what things you are going to support in this life and how that support aligns up with Christ. Don't let pragmatism become your faith.

Like I said, I am planning on voting for Trump at this time. I do not see his platform as specifically anti-Christian (although others draw inferences and conclusions to the contrary). That said, you are going down a very dangerous and unbiblical path when you say that Christians should vote for Trump. You are letting your zeal get the better of you here.

 

[Salty]

No one believes they are voting for a pastor, ....

That phrase became popular 4 years ago, when many Christians refused to vote for Romney because he was a Mormon.

Of course, I doubt anyone thinks we are actually voting for a pastor - rather it was an analogy.

These Evangelicals want the perfect candidate - well that will not happen as Jesus Christ is not running.

Thus we have to look at the platform of the candidates. And with most if not all - there is no candidate that you agree with 100% of the time.

Bottom line - we KNOW how far Hillary will take us down the road of destruction.
We also know that realistically, that either the R or the D will win. (Yes, I know that Lincoln won as a new minor party in1860 - but he was also running against 3 other candidates)

 

[JonC]

That phrase became popular 4 years ago, when many Christians refused to vote for Romney because he was a Mormon.

Of course, I doubt anyone thinks we are actually voting for a pastor - rather it was an analogy.

These Evangelicals want the perfect candidate - well that will not happen as Jesus Christ is not running.

Thus we have to look at the platform of the candidates. And with most if not all - there is no candidate that you agree with 100% of the time.

Bottom line - we KNOW how far Hillary will take us down the road of destruction.
We also know that realistically, that either the R or the D will win. (Yes, I know that Lincoln won as a new minor party in1860 - but he was also running against 3 other candidates)

I agree that we need to look at the platforms (I suppose the candidates also are important, but we do not really know the people whereas we can at least know what they present as an agenda).

I'm sure there are some who will not vote for someone unless they at least pretend to be like-minded Christians. But I think that this is perhaps a minority. Looking at candidates that have run (and carried the "Evangelical vote") in the past, I am more inclined to believe that it is the platforms and agendas that are driving some Christians away from supporting the GOP. Sure, some think Trump is a nut. But some of us who think Trump nutty may actually vote for the man.

My point is not against Trump so much as it is against the comment that "Christians should vote for Trump" and the idea that a Christian has an obligation to cast a vote for one of the two top contenders in any given election. I absolutely believe that a Christian should not support the Democrat platform. But knowing how far Hillary will take us does not justify voting for Trump if the voter cannot in good conscience stand before God in supporting that platform. Pragmatics is never an excuse to sin.

 

[Salty]

My point is not against Trump so much as it is against the comment that "Christians should vote for Trump" ....

I can appreciate that - but on the other hand some are saying that Christians should NOT vote for Trump because he is not a Christian.

 

[evangelist6589]

No one believes they are voting for a pastor, but many of us reject the notion that faith is something that should be silent and ineffective.

Let me ask you this, Evan - Do you believe that we are responsible for our actions? If so, then if you believed that supporting one agenda was supporting an evil (by evil I mean an act against God), would you do it anyway? If you don't believe we are responsible for our actions, then what do you do with 1 Peter 1:14-19?

You used the verse that we in the world, not of it, to support your assertion that Christians should vote for Trump. Do you realize that it means the exact opposite? In John 17:16 Jesus prays for His disciples who are not of the world, that they may be kept from sin. Notice He did not pray that God use their sin to advance the Kingdom. He prayed that they may be kept from sin.

Those early church men and women who refused to denounce Christ and suffered the consequences in this life were not wrong for their actions (even when it cost them the lives of their families). They were not counted as murders even thought by denouncing their faith they could have saved their lives. If supporting a political candidate and his/her platform is also a denouncement of your faith, then I think that you need to be a bit more cautious in your use of Scripture to encourage others to ungodliness. I'm not saying it is wrong for you to vote for Trump. But I am saying that it is wrong for you to pretend that Christians are mandated by Scripture to cast their vote for a viable candidate instead of using their vote in faithful obedience to God.

The issue is that there are some who strongly believe that God is not powerless in the lives of Christians. It is not about voting for a pastor (or even just a man for President). It is about what platform, what causes, what things you are going to support in this life and how that support aligns up with Christ. Don't let pragmatism become your faith.

Like I said, I am planning on voting for Trump at this time. I do not see his platform as specifically anti-Christian (although others draw inferences and conclusions to the contrary). That said, you are going down a very dangerous and unbiblical path when you say that Christians should vote for Trump. You are letting your zeal get the better of you here.

I never once said John 17:15-19 says Christians should vote for Trump. Christians are in the world and not of it and so this passage of scripture refutes the notion of those Christians that refuse to get involved politically and want to rather live in a monastery. But by all means I believe that Christians should support Trump as he may not be the best choice but he beats the alternative choice.

 

[carpro]

The media.

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The media "fact checkers" did a lot of lying to win.


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[carpro]

Hillary had help from Lester Holt. Lester pressed Trump with some thorny issues such as Obama birth certificate. He fussed at the audience when some cheered DT but didn't seem to mind at all when Hillary's supporters applauded/cheered her. No questions about Hillary's private email server, "Basket of Deplorables", or health issues.

The fix was in. It was a set up from the word go. Holt didn't even try to cover his bias. It's all out there for the world to see. Shameful.


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[carpro]

I wouldn't call that a debate, one person was spouting DNC talking points, the other two were arguing with each other.

And Trump has won every online poll post-debate, and do you know why? All the enthusiasm is on his side. He did well because he did keep his cool and had to debate two people, and she did well because she looked well enough to allay those health rumors somewhat. Her answers seemed canned and rehearsed, except on the rare occasions she was directly responding to Trump.

Still won't matter, these debates don't usually make a whit of difference in the final tally. I'd think Trumpsters stayed Trump, Hillbots stayed Hill, and the undecideds stayed undecided for now.

Disagree. Undecideds will swing more toward Trump after Holt's decidedly biased performance. A lot of them can see what's going on and know Hillary has to have the help of the media to cover her lies and help her win.


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[Aaron]

Is that a gay bar?

 

[poncho]

Dare anybody ask why? Try this we're you're doing evangelism. Walk up to a black person or a Hispanic person or any lost person who isn't white, and tell them that you voted for Donald Trump and you don't care about any of the stuff that he said about them. And then try to share the Gospel with them.

It should be an embarrassment to Christians to admit supporting that man.

He's got to be one of the most undisciplined candidates I've ever seen. I mean the man admitted that he didn't pay any taxes because the government would just squander it.

Not to mention he's just rude and wouldn't follow the rules. Lester Holt should have turned his mic off.

Wait a minute did you just say Lester Holt should have turned his mic off? Whoa, you don't like or agree with Donald Trump so you believe he shouldn't be allowed to be heard? I sure hope you never become a moderator here.

 

[HankD]

Abortion - the shedding of innocent blood - legalized murder.

I know what is right for me to do and for whom I will vote:

Deuteronomy 21:9 So shalt thou put away the guilt of innocent blood from among you, when thou shalt do that which is right in the sight of the LORD.


HankD

 

[JonC]

I never once said John 17:15-19 says Christians should vote for Trump. Christians are in the world and not of it and so this passage of scripture refutes the notion of those Christians that refuse to get involved politically and want to rather live in a monastery. But by all means I believe that Christians should support Trump as he may not be the best choice but he beats the alternative choice.

This is what you said:

Christians need to vote for the best candidate whoever that may be. Christians are not called to live in a monastery. In the world but not of it (John 17:15-19).

Had you said that Christians need to be involved with the world in which they find themselves, I would have agreed. We are to be "salt" and I don't see how we can be "salt" if we completely withdraw from our environment. But you associated John 17:15-19 with the statement that Christians needed to vote. Standing for something does not always mean casting your vote for something else.

I believe that there will come a time when Christians may not be able to, in good conscience, support the platform of either party. Some will say that this time is now. This is something that you have to ask yourself each time you stand behind something with your voice and your support. How you cast your vote is your responsibility and you will be held accountable for those things you support. Likewise, I am responsible for those things I support.

 

[JonC]

Abortion - the shedding of innocent blood - legalized murder.

I know what is right for me to do and for whom I will vote:

Deuteronomy 21:9 So shalt thou put away the guilt of innocent blood from among you, when thou shalt do that which is right in the sight of the LORD.


HankD

So is warmongering.

I am not saying that this defines the GOP, but to many it does. It is not fair to reduce immorality down to abortion. Sin is sin.

So long as we know we are accountable for those policies we support with our vote, then I think we are on the right track even when we disagree. Christians are called to holiness and to resist evil in their lives. We are not, however, called to stand against evil in the world except that stand be for God. We need to start being known not for those things we stand against but for Who we stand for.

 

[HankD]

So is warmongering.

I am not saying that this defines the GOP, but to many it does. It is not fair to reduce immorality down to abortion. Sin is sin.

So long as we know we are accountable for those policies we support with our vote, then I think we are on the right track even when we disagree. Christians are called to holiness and to resist evil in their lives. We are not, however, called to stand against evil in the world except that stand be for God. We need to start being known not for those things we stand against but for Who we stand for.

So say you.

HankD

 

[InTheLight]

A Fox News executive sent a memo Tuesday afternoon reminding television producers and the politics team that unscientific online polls "do not meet our editorial standards."

Dana Blanton, vice president of public-opinion research at Fox News, explained in the memo obtained by Business Insider that "online 'polls' like the one on Drudge, Time, etc. where people can opt-in or self-select … are really just for fun."

"As most of the publications themselves clearly state, the sample obviously can’t be representative of the electorate because they only reflect the views of those Internet users who have chosen to participate," Blanton wrote.

The Fox News executive noted users who participated had to have had internet access, been online at the time, be Drudge fans, and self-select to participate.

"Another problem — we know some campaigns/groups of supporters encourage people to vote in online polls and flood the results," she wrote. "These quickie click items do not meet our editorial standards."

http://www.businessinsider.com/fox-news-online-debate-polls-trump-drudge-2016-9