Dave G
Well-Known Member
Exactly.
The only deceiver I know is Lucifer and those who follow him in their rebellion against God.
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Who worketh all things after the counsel of His own will.—Ephesians 1:11
- Thread starter Wesley Briggman
- Start date
YOU DAVE. You are stopping him. What do you mean by IF he wanted? Was the command not clear enough to reveal what he WANTS.
My God is not deceptive nor a coward to state his claim of what he desires and lie about it.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
I'll need Scripture, Utilyan, that shows that I, as a mere man, can stop the Lord from doing something.
My words aren't enough to convince those that are "listening".
His words are all that should be needed.
Perhaps instead of trying to convince the readers here by your words, you should be using His?
You'll need to be more specific, instead of chaining "logical" statements together... which it seems that you think should be enough to do the job.
His words are what get my attention.
The same thing gets the attention of every child of God ( John 8:47 ).
They are the only thing we can count on, objectively, and He tells us to do that very thing ( Proverbs 3:5-6 ).
Believers are to trust Him and His words... and not "persuasive arguments" from men.
Neither is mine.
He is not a man that He should lie ( Numbers 23:19 ).
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I'll need Scripture, Utilyan.
My words aren't enough to convince those that are "listening".
His words are all that should be needed.
Perhaps instead of trying to convince the readers here by your words, you should be using His?
You'll need to be more specific, instead of chaining logical statements together... which it seems that you think should be enough to do the job.
His words are what get my attention.
Neither is mine.
I am using his words I am using his COMMAND.
Dave, God doesn't want you to SIN ever again. WHY? its not any offense or pain you put on him, It is because you are the victim of sin and you are his child. He is trying to save you from you.
He really REALLY does not want you to sin again.
By FORCE, if God wanted to at a blink of an eye he could stop all the sin everywhere change pull your brain out and slap in a new one, or forcibly rewire you and you never sin again.
Can you believe this that God can by force change you and you stop sinning forever?
Do you believe God wants you to sin today or tomorrow?
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Then may I suggest quoting them?
A victim?
I think that you've been listening to too much of modern psychology, instead of His words, Utilyan.
We aren't victims of sin...we're fully complicit in it.
"Trying" to save me from myself?
Where did you ever get the idea that God "tries" to do anything, Utilyan?
I guarantee it wasn't out of the Bible.
He either does, or does not.
With Him, there is no "in between".
Whatever He decides to do, will come to pass.
We as men have nothing to say about it.
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Dave G
Well-Known Member
I thank God for His promise that someday, I will not ever sin again.
He could, if He wanted to.
Again, He works all things according to His purposes.
" And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her." ( Genesis 20:6 ).
Of course.
Again, I will stop, someday.
But my salvation does not rely on me stopping sinning.
It relies on Christ's finished work on the cross for me.
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I didn't ask you if someday...... Do you believe God wants you to sin today or tomorrow? RIGHT NOW.
You really should read His word, Utilyan.
It truly is an eye opener the more one studies it.
This is my final reply in this thread.
I wish you well, and my hope is that you will dig deeply into His words and abide in them and them alone.
May God bless you.
God does not want you to sin Dave. That is the TRUTH.
Why repeat this obviously false claim? If you enter a room through a door, you pass through the door before you are in the room. Thus our faith precedes not only our salvation (Ephesians 2:8-9) but our election (2 Thessalonians 2:13). Think about this, how were given faith before we were chosen? It is a lock.
I had nothing to do with being chosen by God in eternity past to be among His elect.
The Holy Spirit provided the faith for me to respond to being His elect.
God does not draw mortal-man in vain. He will have His way. Saul on the road to Damascus is a prime example.
Eph 1:3 KJV - Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:
Among His spiritual blessing is faith.
Eph 1:4 KJV - According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
1Pe 1:20 KJV - Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
If my understand and application of scripture is in error, I pray the Holy Spirit will convict and enlighten me.
God will not force men to love Him simply because there is no such thing as forced love. If God were to force love on men like your doctrine states then His love would not exist. You see God is Love. He loves us and desires the same from us. God has chosen to give men a choice in order to receive real love from men. He invites us to come to Him
Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
You see even Christ said to come to Him it's easy and His yoke is easy and His burden is light.
Salvation is easy It isn't complicated.
All you have to do is believe and place your trust in Him.
MB
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
... "no such thing as forced love".. is just reasoning, using a mind effected by the curse of sin. It is philosophy. Made up by man, to pretend to support false teaching.
God Hates sin. All human beings are sinners, who sin, and practice sin, because it is our nature to sin and do nothing but sin, there is none good, not one.
The Scriptures you quoted from Matthew are to Saved souls, like most verses misquoted by those who have no will, as Jesus Said.
"You will not come to Me that you might have Life".
God has given Adam a choice and Adam sinned and we all sinned in Adam, because if it was us in the Garden, we were no match, in our mutability, for Satan.
Same then, as now.
We would have not chosen to be immutable, because we would not have been, and we would have changed and fallen, just as our mutable Greastest Grandfather did.
We are all children of Adam and have a mind at emnity with God.
None more obvious than those who glory in their self and boast of 'their belief', or 'their faith'.
You never see them give Jesus Credit for Being The Savior.
They will never say, "Who", is talking about "God", and that "God Works All Things After The Cousel of His Own Will."
Because, they "will not".
Their "will", is not God.
And their "will", is not God's Spirit.
Their "will" "will not come" to God,
Who is Spirit.
God is Love.
God Hates sin.
They do not believe that, or have Faith in God's Son.
They have their own faith that works all things after the counsel of their own will that will not come to Him that they might have Life.
God Hates sin. All human beings are sinners, who sin, and practice sin, because it is our nature to sin and do nothing but sin, there is none good, not one.
The Scriptures you quoted from Matthew are to Saved souls, like most verses misquoted by those who have no will, as Jesus Said.
"You will not come to Me that you might have Life".
God has given Adam a choice and Adam sinned and we all sinned in Adam, because if it was us in the Garden, we were no match, in our mutability, for Satan.
Same then, as now.
We would have not chosen to be immutable, because we would not have been, and we would have changed and fallen, just as our mutable Greastest Grandfather did.
We are all children of Adam and have a mind at emnity with God.
None more obvious than those who glory in their self and boast of 'their belief', or 'their faith'.
You never see them give Jesus Credit for Being The Savior.
They will never say, "Who", is talking about "God", and that "God Works All Things After The Cousel of His Own Will."
Because, they "will not".
Their "will", is not God.
And their "will", is not God's Spirit.
Their "will" "will not come" to God,
Who is Spirit.
God is Love.
God Hates sin.
They do not believe that, or have Faith in God's Son.
They have their own faith that works all things after the counsel of their own will that will not come to Him that they might have Life.
"because it is our nature to sin and do nothing but sin, there is none good, not one."
Blaming God, False humility is the worst Vanity.
I sin because it is completely my fault. God can show me the exact moment I failed , I could have avoided, where I CHOSE to step in the wrong.
With every provided capacity to avoid the sin.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
It is our Nature to sin, because Adam sinned and we sinned in Adam.
No one in the entire Universe has ever blamed God, using fleshly, mental-only, sin-cursed negative Psychology of falsely Accusing of false humilty(?), as vanity, or anything else for Mankind being sinners and if they did, they won't on Judgment Day.
"And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." Genesis 6:5.
Our Nature to sin causes us to imagine that we work all things after the counsel of our own will, because we have the capibility of God.
That is because the person who imagines God Caused Mankind to sin has been operating in a State of Nature, where, "the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually".
No one in the entire Universe has ever blamed God, using fleshly, mental-only, sin-cursed negative Psychology of falsely Accusing of false humilty(?), as vanity, or anything else for Mankind being sinners and if they did, they won't on Judgment Day.
"And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." Genesis 6:5.
Our Nature to sin causes us to imagine that we work all things after the counsel of our own will, because we have the capibility of God.
That is because the person who imagines God Caused Mankind to sin has been operating in a State of Nature, where, "the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually".
EXCUSES, EXCUSES, EXCUSES...
No. God provided me with absolute every way to avoid evil. You should quit blaming God for things SOLELY your fault.
1 Corinthians 13
13No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.
God has given you the complete capacity to avoid absolutely every sin.
God does not want you to sin today or tomorrow.
It is not a FAKE want or a FAKE desire. He sincerely REALLY does not want you to sin.
You need to learn to take RESPONSIBILITY, quit blaming God.
I'm sorry for the Sins I commit. You are sorry God didn't do a better job of equipping you. You are passively spitting in his face.
Proverbs 16:18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.
I guess those who think that sin is not a constant warfare, that will torment us until the day we die, in thought and deed has not taken the words of Apostle Paul to heart... It could not be any plainer brethren!... Brother Glen
Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Th
There were several things in your post that you knew to do good and did them not.
You sinned.
You say you can be Jesus.
But you broke God's Law.
You didn't keep the Law in every point.
You are quilty of all.
A circle that has a gap in it is not a complete circle, at all.
It is not a circle.
It is a curved, broken line.
You have either kept the whole Law at all times, or are guilty before God of being a Law breaker.
No second chance.
Your sin is against The Eternal God and must be Punished with Eternal Suffering.
It is foolish for you to think you are God.
You can not be Perfect like Jesus.
The thought of foolishness is sin.
It is God that Works All Things after The Counsel of His Own Will.
Not you.
There were several things in your post that you knew to do good and did them not.
You sinned.
You say you can be Jesus.
But you broke God's Law.
You didn't keep the Law in every point.
You are quilty of all.
A circle that has a gap in it is not a complete circle, at all.
It is not a circle.
It is a curved, broken line.
You have either kept the whole Law at all times, or are guilty before God of being a Law breaker.
No second chance.
Your sin is against The Eternal God and must be Punished with Eternal Suffering.
It is foolish for you to think you are God.
You can not be Perfect like Jesus.
The thought of foolishness is sin.
It is God that Works All Things after The Counsel of His Own Will.
Not you.
Rockson
Active Member
Sorry Dave that's absolutely ludicrous. The Old Covenant also included obeying God about animal sacrifices and their blood which was a type of the blood of Christ to come. With the animal sacrifices it covered their sins but did not remit them but it still had to do with a spiritual aspect.
That's not the point. The point is the Old Covenant still gave instructions for them to carry out that connected to a positive spiritual end result. You of coarse and all other Calvinists must deny that or your paradigm goes down the tube. It is none-the-less true something you need to acknowledge as being so.
If our sinful nature only allows us to reject God, and when we are regenerated we cannot help but have faith, then why do we still sin as believer? What kind of nature believes in God but still sins?