Whose Son is YHVH, the Christ?

[DHK]

1 Corinthians 15:50 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

inherit does not mean the same as enter.

 

[Moriah]

No, it isn't ironic. It is sad. And when a person starts attacking such cardinal doctrines as the trinity and the resurrection those are the doctrines which eventually get them banned. Only true heretics deny such basic Christian doctrines. One cannot be a Christian and deny the resurrection and the trinity.
Talk about false beliefs. Yes. Do you want a list? Here it is:

1. A denial of a physical resurrection: You have a belief similar the J.W.'s "spirit resurrection," since flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

You do not care one bit that you are lying about me.

I did not ever deny that Jesus was raised from the dead.

2 A denial of the trinity.

You sure defend a Catholic doctrine, an unexplainable Catholic doctrine. Don’t they even say it is impossible to understand, because their explanation makes no sense.
Tell me, since Jesus in the flesh is God, and Jesus existed with God from the beginning before coming to earth and IS God, why do you keep calling him the “second person in the Godhead”? Jesus is God, how is he second

3. A belief that works are necessary for salvation. ("works alone" James 2)

No Old Testament works to make myself clean before worshipping God, only faith in what Jesus did, faith in his blood. That does not mean we are not to confess, or cannot do anything else!

4. A denial in the depravity of man.

There is no scripture that says all men are totally depraved. That is a manufactured belief. Faith come from hearing…if all are totally depraved, then how did they hear?

5. A denial in the eternal security of the believer.

You just keep making up stuff about me.

I am sure of my salvation. I am sure because I obey.

6. A denial in the necessity of a local church.

You have left over Catholic teachings going on. The Catholics teach it is a sin to miss church. They believe it is sin because you are missing out on the real blood and body of Jesus in the wafer for you to ingest.

7. A denial in the Great Commission; that the Great Commission was fulfilled in the first century and is not applicable for us today.

If all are meant to leave and teach other in different lands, then why does the scriptures not tell us of all the Galatians, Romans, Hebrews, Thessalonians, Ephesians, Colossians, Philippians, and Corinthians being gone to minister to other countries?

8. A belief in entire sanctification.

We are to aim for perfection. We are to be holy. We are not to continue sinning. That is what the Bible says.

That is a few just for starters. There are more.

You lie about my beliefs. You say things that I have not ever said.

Yes, you believe in unbiblical doctrines to the point of grave heresy, heresy that says that you are outside the realm of orthodox Christianity--not a Christian at all.

Jesus himself saved me personally. Nothing you can say can make me feel as though I am not saved. In fact, you would be showing how wicked you are if I did not have this assurance from Jesus.

The entire book is not speaking of salvation; but rather living a practical Christian life. As long as you refuse to see that you will never understand the book of James. James is speaking of a faith that produces good works.

James says such a faith cannot save a man. Why do you ignore, deny, and twist that truth?

You don't have to fear for me. I know beyond any shadow of a doubt that if I were to die right now, I would go to straight to heaven. I have that assurance. I will not lose my salvation. It is eternally secure in the hand of Christ. My salvation is by faith in Christ, who alone saves me by His Grace. I understand what James is teaching. I understand the context. I can see why an unsaved man would not understand these things.

I see exactly what you are saying, and it is false doctrines. You say an unsaved man could not see what you see…be careful how you judge, it could be the very way and thing for which you are judged.

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
--Note that it starts with "therefore." That is a "connective" which connects the verse to the preceding verses in the previous chapter. That is actually where it belongs.

There is a wise saying:
Whenever you see a "therefore" or "why-fore" look before to see why for the "therefore" is there for.
Do you understand that? It means be sure of context.

I could not care less about your human wisdom.

Look before and see what is written:
Romans 4:21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
--Verse 21: A definition of faith--being fully persuaded that what God had promised God would do.
Verse 22: A teaching of faith alone. By faith alone righteousness was imputed to Abraham.

Paul is talking about no works of the law like circumcision, and animal sacrifices, Paul is not talking about OBEYING GOD.

Verse 23-25: Likewise to us: If we believe (faith alone) that Christ was raised up from the dead (physical resurrection), raised for our justification, then we shall be made righteous.
5:1 Therefore being justified by faith (faith alone), we have peace with God.

There is no part of this passage that refers to the OT in any way. There is no part of this passage that refers to OT law, such as circumcision or any other such work. You are reading those things into this passage.

You miss where circumcision is mentioned.
The chapter numbers and the scripture numbers were added later.
Try reading it fluidly from the chapter before and after.

I quoted to you Eph.2:8,9. What is this off-the-topic Scripture that you are giving have any thing to with Eph.2:8,9? Absolutely the nothing!!

He is not writing to Jews; he is writing to blood-bought Christians, those who by faith alone have trusted in Christ as their Savior. Thus your explanation makes no sense.

For centuries upon centuries upon centuries the Gentiles were not included, and the Jews had to do animal sacrifices, observance of special days, and circumcision, but you think that was not talked about, that God including the Gentiles now would not be discussed is more than ridiculousness. That you would think the laws of the Jews were not discussed is a denial of the Truth.

Isaiah had NT truth. He may not have understood it all, but he did understand some of it. Look at the NT truth in Isaiah:

Ha ha ha Philip explained Jesus, as he was taught in the New Testament times. LOL

No you don't; you teach much heresy, as I have listed near the top of this post. It is grave heresy.
[quote[You are badly confused.

The way you debate is to lie.

Why do you continue to deny 1Cor.2:14

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

We do not even have to understand to obey Jesus, but understanding will be given to those who obey.

The unsaved man cannot understand spiritual things. He cannot!

Again, we do not even have to have understanding!!!! God will give us understanding after we obey.

You have a wrong definition of repent, and won't admit it.

That is you exactly.

 

[Moriah]

inherit does not mean the same as enter.

Jesus is in the kingdom of God!

 

[The Biblicist]

You say Jesus kept the flesh, the flesh part, .

Lu 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Are you calling Christ a liar? He says he has "FLESH" and he was talking about his RESURRECTED body!

You are simply ignorant of God's Word and worse yet you refuse to be taught and there is nothng worse than that kind of person (Tit. 3:10).

 

[DHK]

You sure defend a Catholic doctrine, an unexplainable Catholic doctrine. Don’t they even say it is impossible to understand, because their explanation makes no sense.
Tell me, since Jesus in the flesh is God, and Jesus existed with God from the beginning before coming to earth and IS God, why do you keep calling him the “second person in the Godhead”? Jesus is God, how is he second

This is really sad. It is exactly what the J.W.'s say. They don't believe the trinity, not because it isn't taught, but rather because it cannot be understood. "It is impossible to understand the trinity; therefore we will not believe it."
That is what they said to me one day. That is what you are saying.
Is it true that you only believe those things you can understand?
Do you know how the light bulb comes on when you turn the switch on?
Do you know how the plane flies after it starts its engines?
Can you explain the law of gravity though you cannot see it.
The earth is spinning, why don't you just fall off?
Simple questions. Are you able to give exact and detailed scientific answers to each question.

Do you actually believe only what you see and understand?

John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

 

[The Biblicist]

1 Corinthians 15:50 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

Are you on prescribed medicene or under a doctor's care? Have you had psychological problems or under pyschological care?

 

[Moriah]

Lu 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Are you calling Christ a liar? He says he has "FLESH" and he was talking about his RESURRECTED body!

You are simply ignorant of God's Word and worse yet you refuse to be taught and there is nothng worse than that kind of person (Tit. 3:10).

Jesus does not have the same flesh body. There is no flesh in heaven. Jesus appeared to his disciples in the body he died with to show them he was alive.

 

[DHK]

You do not care one bit that you are lying about me.

I did not ever deny that Jesus was raised from the dead.

These are your words:

You have no understanding. What is buried is not what is raised when we receive immortal bodies!
YOU say no corruption was raised back to life, YET YOU SAY JESUS HAS FLESH IN HEAVEN, FLESH IS CORRUPTIBLE.

It is a denial of the physical resurrection of Jesus Christ.

 

[The Biblicist]

There is no flesh in heaven.

So you simply call Christ a liar! He says he has "flesh" and you say there is no flesh in heaven.

So, even Christ is less perfect than you are?!?!

Have you ever considered that the change is not flesh but rather the CONDITION between the flesh now and at the resurrection?

Have you ever considered that the reason that flesh corrupts is due to sin and that the body is raised without sin and thus without the ability to corrupt?

The body that went into the grave is the body that came out of the grave and those who say different Paul's call "FALSE WITNESSES"

15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.


What is raised up Moriah? Paul says it is "the dead" that is raised up. What died and had to be buried Moriah?

You are a false witness.

 

[The Biblicist]

Jesus Jesus appeared to his disciples in the body he died with to show them he was alive.

Then what body was RESURRECTED from the grave if that is the body he showed them?

You are denying the RESURRECTION of Jesus Christ. Do you know what the word RESURRECT means??? T "RISE UP" but you do not believe that the body placed in the grave actually was RAISED UP three days later. You believe that it was completely destroyed and God created another body! That is not a RESURRECTION and so you are a false witness.

Why would God have to RAISE UP Jesus FROM THE GRAVE if there was not something in the grave that is being RAISED UP?????? You are denying the very meaning of the words "rased up" and "resurrection" and "from the grave"! Why would there even be a RESURRECTION at all FROM THE GRAVES if NOTHING that went into the grave comes out of the grave and if nothing in the grave is RAISED UP OUT OF the grave?????

 

[The Biblicist]

Jesus does not have the same flesh body.

Just admit you do not believe in the resurrection of the body of Christ because you are already admitting it. You are continually asserting that the body which was placed in the grave which did not see corruption was NOT THE BODY that Jesus went to heaven with. Hence you deny the resurrection of that body which was placed in the grave. Just admit it!

 

[The Biblicist]

Biblicist,
When you plant a seed of something, let us say of wheat, do you think a seed comes up out of the ground? NO. When you plant a seed of something…something comes up that looks nothing like what died and buried in the ground.
1 Corinthians 15:37
When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else.
1 Corinthians 15:38
But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body.

Yes, that is the analogy that Paul gives but then he goes on to explicitly state the exact differences so that we do not have to guess at it and uses the term "sown" in defining the differences:

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.


What is the difference? There is not a different "IT" but the same "IT" which is sown is raised.

What is the difference? THERE IS A CHANGE in regard to its QUALITY:

1. "IT" is changed from Corruption to incorruption
2. "IT" is changed from Dishonor to honor
3. "IT" is changed from weakness to power
4. "IT" is changed from a natural body to a spiritual body.

The only body raised and seen by the disciples was a "FLESH" body but it was "FLESH" that no longer corrupted, no longer in dishonor, no longer weak, no longer a natural body. All these changes made it a "spritual body" or an incorruptible body of flesh, honorable body of flesh, powerful body of flesh.

It is the CORRUPTIBLE aspect of this flesh that brought it to dishonor.
It is the CORRUPTIBLE aspect of this flesh that brought it to weakness


The phrase "flesh and blood" is a SUMMARY STATEMENT of all that the NATURAL BODY is previous to the resurrection. Christ body was "flesh and bone".

Take note what immediately follows the statement "flesh and blood" cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven:


50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.


The phrase "flesh and blood" is an expression that simply summarizes all the characteristics of "corruption" just listed in verses 42-44.

 

[Moriah]

These are your words:

You have no understanding. What is buried is not what is raised when we receive immortal bodies!
YOU say no corruption was raised back to life, YET YOU SAY JESUS HAS FLESH IN HEAVEN, FLESH IS CORRUPTIBLE.

It is a denial of the physical resurrection of Jesus Christ.

You are like the dangerous men that had Paul and the other apostles killed.

 

[Moriah]

Even those alive at the time of Jesus’ coming, they will be changed in a twinkling of the eye.

To go by the teachings of DHK and Biblicist would mean they could not be changed until they die and are buried.

They have no understanding. They are a result of indoctrination. That is what happens when someone in falseness teaches someone in falseness that teaches someone in falseness.

 

[The Biblicist]

You are like the dangerous men that had Paul and the other apostles killed.

So now you are accusing us of being potentional murderers? Well, I guess this is the kind of accusation a man must go to when he has been thoroughly proven to be wrong on every count. If you cannot give reasonable and Biblical based responses you just as well start throwing whatever mud you can invent in order to escape such embarassment.

 

[Moriah]

1 John 3:2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

If we will still have flesh, then we DO know what we will be, but John say what we will be has not yet been made know, and that we shall be like Jesus. That means we do not even know what Jesus looks like.

 

[Moriah]

So now you are accusing us of being potentional murderers? Well, I guess this is the kind of accusation a man must go to when he has been thoroughly proven to be wrong on every count. If you cannot give reasonable and Biblical based responses you just as well start throwing whatever mud you can invent in order to escape such embarassment.

People distorted what the Apostles believed too.

Just read the lies you said I said.

Enough of this.

 

[The Biblicist]

Even those alive at the time of Jesus’ coming, they will be changed in a twinkling of the eye.

Yes, EXACTLY as Jesus was changed! He did not CHANGE bodies but His body was changed from being corruptible due to the presence of sin; and thus changed from dishonor to honor because it is without sin; changed from weakness to power because it is without sin in it. Changed from being mortal due to sin and becoming immortal.

They have no understanding. They are a result of indoctrination. That is what happens when someone in falseness teaches someone in falseness that teaches someone in falseness.

Anyone who is unbiased and obejective that has been reading this debate knows which us has no understanding and who is simply indoctrinated and it is quite obvious.

 

[The Biblicist]

People distorted what the Apostles believed too.

Just read the lies you said I said.

Enough of this.

Yes, stop lying, accusing, running, ignoring the evidences and be a man and admit you are wrong because it is not hiddent to any objective reader.

 

[Moriah]

Yes, EXACTLY as Jesus was changed! He did not CHANGE bodies but His body was changed from being corruptible due to the presence of sin; and thus changed from dishonor to honor because it is without sin; changed from weakness to power because it is without sin in it. Changed from being mortal due to sin and becoming immortal.
.

lol...If Jesus has the same body then why does the scriptures say we SHALL see him as he is. If he has flesh and looks just like us, then why does the scriptures say what we will be like is not yet known?