Whose Son is YHVH, the Christ?

[The Biblicist]

Once again, your argument is fallacious. You have been caught on your own BIG MOUTH piece, in trying to be slick with your distortion of the text.......

Are you so foolish to believe that you can with one swipe of the pen CHANGE GOD'S WORD to make it say what YOU WANT IT TO SAY rather than what it ACTUALLY SAYS? Are you that much of a heretic? I guess you are!

Originally Posted by The Biblicist
David says that it was JHVH that is speaking and He is speaing to "my ADONAI" not to my "JHVH
.... Again, the speaker is YHVH (LORD) not Adonai ("my Lord")

Do you think when I said "David SAYS" that I heard him AUDIBLY speak Psalm 110:1 to me????? Are you that stupid? He WROTE it and thus SAID it in writing.

Don't you know that is the common Biblical statement for referring to what a Biblical writer wrote????

Ro 11:9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

Ro 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Ga 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.


You are teaching heresy and you are a heretic and should be labeled as such publicly.

 

[Seve]

You position denies the atonement of Christ. It denies the resurrection of Christ. If Christ's physical body of flesh were left to corrupt in the grave then sin and death would be the victors:

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

The physical FLESH body of Christ rose from the grave and that is why death will not have the victory over our physical flesh bodies:

Lu 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

That is the "SAME JESUS" they handled, and then saw ascend into heaven of which the angel said:

Acts 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have SEEN him go into heaven.

Go back to Sunday school and learn the Scriptures.

Again, your argument is fallacious and only based on your own distortion of other' belief.

NO one here is arguing that Christ did not have a body upon resurrection. What you all failed to realize is the fact that Christ is back in his Glorified Body.... the same Glorified Body that He had during his Physical appearances to his people in the Old Testament.

Only willingly ignorant like you always stumble to this truth after being told so many times.

:laugh:

 

[The Biblicist]

Psalm 110:1 proves you are wrong! David writes by inspiration and David wrote that YHVH spoke to "my Adonai" and it is "Adonai" that is Christ the "Son of David."

The Hebrew makes this clear:

Psalm 110:1 ¶ <07272> לרגליך <01916> הדם <0341> איביך <07896> אשׂית <05704> עד <03225> לימיני <03427> שׂב <0113> לאדני <03068> יהוה <05002> נאם <04210> מזמור <01732> לדוד (110:1)

The English makes this clear:

1 ¶ «A Psalm <04210> of David <01732>.» The LORD <03068> said <05002> (8803) unto my Lord <0113>, Sit <03427> (8798) thou at my right hand <03225>, until I make <07896> (8799) thine enemies <0341> (8802) thy footstool <01916> <07272>.


I put the Strongs reference numbers in so you can check out the exact Hebrew. As you will see you are mistaken. YHVH is actually speaking to "my adonai" and not as you have it in reverse. This text destroys your whole theory. But so does Isaiah 44:6,8 with 43:10-11 and many other texts.

Again, here is black and white evidence that what Seve is teaching is absolute falsehood.

He could not respond to the evidence. He ignored it! He not only ignored it but tried to foolishly argue that since I used the word "says" that what I said changed what David wrote by inspiration:BangHead::laugh:

 

[The Biblicist]

Again, your argument is fallacious and only based on your own distortion of other' belief.

Is that why you could not deal with the SCRIPTURES I presented that actually and literally stated precisely what I said?????

Deal with the Biblical texts and arguments placed before you or go somewhere else where you can find some idiots to embrace what you are trying to teach.

 

[DHK]

I am not the one denying the resurrection.
You first asked me quite some time ago, to give you Scripture showing you that Christ was in the flesh.
I then proceeded to give you plenty of verses that demonstrate that.
The only verse you have provided is that "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God," a verse you don't understand, and are obviously taking out of its context.

Look, you are not very meek (I can tell), thus you will not inherit the earth, where the kingdom will be. The meek will inherit the earth. (The humble)
It is not just "flesh and blood," it is also all those who are not meek who will not "inherit the earth" (kingdom of God). You are on the losing side.

Since then both Biblicist and I have given you plenty more Scripture how Jesus is in the flesh right now. He has a resurrected body. He ate fish with it. He appeared before locked doors to his disciples and showed his wounds to Thomas. He sits on the right hand of throne of God. A spirit does not sit.
He ascended in his body and shall so come again in his body.

Yet you denied a physical resurrection for you denied that he is in his flesh in heaven. That is a denial of the resurrection of Christ.

This was my response to you, when you had said to me:

Originally Posted by Moriah
You are like the dangerous men that had Paul and the other apostles killed.

Not a very nice thing to say is it? In fact it is an ugly accusation.
I also have noticed that this post, posted at 7:51 pm yesterday, and you never replied to it. I suppose you couldn't, perhaps for two reasons.
1. Biblicist did keep you fairly busy.
2. You had no answer.

Your basic reason for denying the resurrection is that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.
1. It says "kingdom of God." not "heaven".
2. The context of the verse is speaking of the carnal nature. Did you look up to see where the verse is found and what it is talking about. "Flesh and blood" in context, is referring to our depraved nature. No depraved nature can enter heaven or the kingdom of God.

3. Look carefully at this verse and try to understand what Jesus is saying:

Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

The meek will inherit the earth (not the arrogant or the proud, as your posts indicate that you are). That puts you in a very bad position. It is not just "flesh and blood" but those that are arrogant that cannot inherit the kingdom of God. What do you do with this verse?

It was very arrogant of you to make the accusation that you did to cause me to answer you with this post in the first place:

You are like the dangerous men that had Paul and the other apostles killed.
--That is a real display of humility isn't it?

 

[The Biblicist]

Again, your argument is fallacious and only based on your own distortion of other' belief.

NO one here is arguing that Christ did not have a body upon resurrection. What you all failed to realize is the fact that Christ is back in his Glorified Body.... the same Glorified Body that He had during his Physical appearances to his people in the Old Testament.

The body the Father prepared for him came from the womb of Mary and was human. That was the body in the resurrection and that is the body seen going into heaven. It is the "man" Jesus Christ that is now in heaven in the body of flesh that ascended into heaven.

Long after the ascension Paul said:

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

He had no HUMAN body prior to the incarnation but appeared in various ways as "theophanies."

However, again Psalms 110:1 COMPLETELY REPUDIATES YOUR DOCTRINE.

 

[Seve]

Is that why you could not deal with the SCRIPTURES I presented that actually and literally stated precisely what I said?????

Deal with the Biblical texts and arguments placed before you or go somewhere else where you can find some idiots to embrace what you are trying to teach.

I already did.... I even question the validity of the traditional view of the Hebrew rendition with my simple questions that even you yourself agree with, unknowingly.... :laugh:

Again.......... In Matthew 22 we read the following... Inserstion are mine for presentation.

41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David.
43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
44 The LORD (?) said unto my (David’) Lord (YHVH), Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

Conclusion:

No man knows the name of the invisible Almighty God Father at this time.

While the term “Lord” is used interchangeably to address the Title of both the Father and the Son, I am very much aware of the rendition of the Hebrew Scholars in ref. to the cited text above (Psalms 110). That's exactly why the issue has been brought forth to this thread (topic).

The questions, however, that need to be answered to prove your case… in analyzing the context of the actual text itself…. are the following.

1) Who was the actual Speaker of the cited text, ref. Psalms 110 in the Old Testament?
2) Who was the Speaker’ Lord..... referring to as… “ MY LORD” in the Old Testament?
3) When was the fulfillment of the prophetic vision took place, after Christ ressurection?

Now if you can honestly answer the questions I brought forth above correctly, then, your objection to my posts will have a basis to stand on, for a change.

However, let me warn you that only willingly ignorant will always stumble to this revelation of Biblical Truth.

David says that it was JHVH that is speaking and He is speaing to "my ADONAI" not to my "JHVH


... Again, the speaker is YHVH (LORD) not Adonai ("my Lord")

Dear Readers,

Obviously, that’s another malicious vain attempt by Biblicist to cover up their flawed doctrinal understanding of the Scripture…..distorting and twisting the text in attempt to response to our simple questions above.

However, based on Biblicist own answer (see underlined quote) above, clearly……. regardless how hard he tried to twist the text to suit his likings – Biblicist is forced to admit to the fact, that the actual Speaker of the text was David himself….. telling us the story about his prophetic vision he had in the OT…… regarding the conversation that took place between the LORD and his (David’s) Lord (YHVH), accordingly – ref. Psalms 110.

As we all know, David only known Lord in the Old Testament was YHVH himself, the God of the Jews. The God of their forefathers.

As I have warned before, only willingly ignorant always stumble to this Truth. And Biblicist is a living proof of it in my view. However, I will just let the readers to be the better judge of it..... Oh well....

:BangHead:

Note: Everytime you make a repeated false assertion about the above.... I will repost our excerpts fpr everybody to see your deception...

 

[The Biblicist]

I already did....

You are lying. You did no such thing! There is not one single post posted by you that responded to the evidence I placed before you.

I even question the validity of the traditional view of the Hebrew rendition with my simple questions that even you yourself agree with, unknowingly.... :laugh:

What do you mean the "hebrew rendition"?? The New Testament Greek presents it exactly as the Hebrew in Psalms. The English in both are the same! The grammar is the same! What in the world do you mean????

You think repeating your error changes anything???? It does not change the grammatical structure of either the Hebrew or English text?

Note: Everytime you make a repeated false assertion about the above.... I will repost our excerpts fpr everybody to see your deception...

You are simply reposted what I have already answered! You are simply repeating absolute nonsense. Do you really believe because I used the word "says" that means I was actually saying that David was giving only his personal opinion which may be right or wrong???:laugh: He made an assertion that it is JHVH who is speaking to "my adonai"! That is the Hebrew. That is the English. That is the Greek in the New Testament. You are intentionally abusing the Word of God to satisfy your own belly.



How about reposting my responses???? Because you can't deal with them and that is why you don't repost them.

 

[Moriah]

This was my response to you, when you had said to me:
[/I]
Not a very nice thing to say is it? In fact it is an ugly accusation.
I also have noticed that this post, posted at 7:51 pm yesterday, and you never replied to it. I suppose you couldn't, perhaps for two reasons.
1. Biblicist did keep you fairly busy.
2. You had no answer.

Your basic reason for denying the resurrection is that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.
1. It says "kingdom of God." not "heaven".
2. The context of the verse is speaking of the carnal nature. Did you look up to see where the verse is found and what it is talking about. "Flesh and blood" in context, is referring to our depraved nature. No depraved nature can enter heaven or the kingdom of God.

3. Look carefully at this verse and try to understand what Jesus is saying:

Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

The meek will inherit the earth (not the arrogant or the proud, as your posts indicate that you are). That puts you in a very bad position. It is not just "flesh and blood" but those that are arrogant that cannot inherit the kingdom of God. What do you do with this verse?

It was very arrogant of you to make the accusation that you did to cause me to answer you with this post in the first place:

You are like the dangerous men that had Paul and the other apostles killed.
--That is a real display of humility isn't it?

It is a dangerous man who makes up things and says someone said something that did not happen.

 

[Seve]

The body the Father prepared for him came from the womb of Mary and was human. That was the body in the resurrection and that is the body seen going into heaven. It is the "man" Jesus Christ that is now in heaven in the body of flesh that ascended into heaven.

Long after the ascension Paul said:

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

He had no HUMAN body prior to the incarnation but appeared in various ways as "theophanies."

However, again Psalms 110:1 COMPLETELY REPUDIATES YOUR DOCTRINE.

"Theophonies" is NOT Biblical. It is only a product of wild imagination of your religious organization.... who can NOT support their view with Scripture.

NO man can represent the express image of the invisible God Father except the Son. Because in him, the Son, dwelleth the fulness of Godhead, bodily (physically). And No man hath seen God at anytime.... who is an invisible Spirit without flesh and bone... that never change...

Therefore, Read my lips again, Biblicist......

YHVH, who appeared physically on severall occassions in the old testament....... to be seen and witness.... could not have been the invisible God Father but the Son of God, himself, the Christ. What makes you think we have a different God in the Old Testment vs. New Testament?

You must be out of your mind.

:BangHead:

 

[The Biblicist]

"
Therefore, Read my lips Biblicist again......

Read the scriptures instead and quit wasting our time with this absolute heretical nonsense!

The only HUMAN body Jesus received was at the incarnation.

The only body raised from the grave was his HUMAN FLESHLY body as He himself clearly asserts that a "spirit" does not have what they SEE HE DOES HAVE.

The only body ascending into heaven was that same HUMAN FLESHLY body and he is in heaven as "THE MAN" Jesus and "THIS SAME JESUS" will come again exactly as he went away IN THE BODY OF FLESH - THE HUMAN BODY.

Your nonsense is completely repudiated by scriptures. Psalms 110:1 both in Hebrew and English repudiate your nonsense. Jesus uses the same structure as in the Old Testament and affirms it. YOU HAVE NOTHING and the text repudiates your false doctrine completely!