Why Baptists are not Protestant

[Earth Wind and Fire]

It has been awhile but I have read (not studied) the document. I remember very little of it. I agreed with its conclusion about ruling elders vs teaching elders being a Calvinistic invention. I disagreed with the document as a whole, though. The reason is that I do not believe there was ever one church in the history of Christianity prior to the spread of the gospel to the Gentiles that held a common doctrine as we would refer to the term. The reason I believe this is it is evident in the Book of Acts at the Jerusalem counsel that churches (at least between Jewish and Gentile congregations) held different general doctrines but were united in Christ.

I believe that those who look for a baptist line misunderstand the nature of the church.

Regardless, if there was a Baptist church in existence during the Protestant Movement I would be surprised (and ashamed to be a Baptist) if they did not speak against Roman Catholic Doctrine.

The idea that "protestant" means "came out of the Roman Catholic Church" is strange (especially since we know this is not true).

So my question would be, if Baptists are not Protestant then why were they silent when Anabaptists who were not a part of the RCC joined their voices in opposition to RCC doctrine?

I don’t know, perhaps fear. Now I’m intrigued... the games a foot Jon!

 

[JonC]

I don’t know, perhaps fear. Now I’m intrigued... the games a foot Jon!

I'm cool with foot games. I'm freaky like that.

 

[Salty]

I agree with you, Baptists are not to be considered Protestants. The original protestants did not go far enough for Mr. John Smythe the former Anglican priest who started the Baptist faith tradition. Baptists reject any kind of orthodox teachings be they the sacraments, to include infant baptism, the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist to name a few. Nope, you folks definitely are not Protestants.

Why are you so hep on Smythe starting the so-called "Baptist faith?" With some of his beliefs, I doubt there is on Baptist church today that would call Smythe as pastor. And later in life, he joined a Mennonite church! Same thing - with Roger Williams - even though he started, what probably is the very first Baptist church on the North America continent - ended up becoming a seeker. To tell you the Truth - I doubt any Baptist today considers Smythe as the founder of Baptists.

In the case of the "Eucharists" our Lord only died once.

 

[Reformed]

I am not a Landmarker, so I do not believe Baptists can be traced back to the time of the Apostles. Baptists are a product of the Reformation and, thus, are Protestants.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I agree with you, Baptists are not to be considered Protestants. The original protestants did not go far enough for Mr. John Smythe the former Anglican priest who started the Baptist faith tradition. Baptists reject any kind of orthodox teachings be they the sacraments, to include infant baptism, the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist to name a few. Nope, you folks definitely are not Protestants.

Adonia, may I point out to you that Baptist’s believe in salvation by grace. There are really only two positions that a person can occupy on this matter. One is that salvation is by grace, and the other is that salvation is by works. It cannot be a combination of the two. A person may say that he believes in salvation by grace, but if he sets forth any act of man's will, such as repentance, faith, baptism, or hearing the gospel, as a condition for obtaining it, then this position must be put on the works side. In other words, your catholism is intensely work’s based and that’s how you define yourselves. You must jump through the hoops of the sacraments in order to appease God. This is definitely not how my “religious society” views our relationship to Christ. Rather, it is He who does most of the heavy lifting for us. It is He, the Lord who provides saving grace so that we would be a new being.... thus born again.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I am not a Landmarker, so I do not believe Baptists can be traced back to the time of the Apostles. Baptists are a product of the Reformation and, thus, are Protestants.

Please explain to me your Landmark comment?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

And you err terribly in your interpretaion of them alone.

really, then how do interpret sacred scripture? I was always told it was through RCC Magisterium so am I correct?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

So back to Saltys origin question... what is a Protestant?

 

[church mouse guy]

I agree with you, Baptists are not to be considered Protestants. The original protestants did not go far enough for Mr. John Smythe the former Anglican priest who started the Baptist faith tradition. Baptists reject any kind of orthodox teachings be they the sacraments, to include infant baptism, the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist to name a few. Nope, you folks definitely are not Protestants.

Sometimes Baptists are called third-wave Protestants. Actually, the RCC in Dominus Iesus said that Baptists were not proper churches so that should be your official position.

 

[church mouse guy]

I am not a Landmarker, so I do not believe Baptists can be traced back to the time of the Apostles. Baptists are a product of the Reformation and, thus, are Protestants.

That's my thinking also--that Baptist are a product of the Reformation. The first churches out were the Church of England and the Lutherans. That's the first wave. The second wave would be the Methodists and others who left the Church of England. The third wave would be Baptists and others who do not identify with the other two waves and who did not come from the first wave directly.

Notice that there really are three branches of Christianity because there are the Eastern Orthodox Churches, the Roman Catholic Church, and the Protestant denominations. The Eastern Orthodox left the RCC in 1054 and the Protestants a little over 500 years ago. Some people want to say Pentecostals are not Protestants but I think for convenience Pentecostals and Baptists are lumped into Protestants because they do not belong in the other two categories.

The RCC has had two schisms and is not appealing to Eastern Orthodox and not appealing to Protestants. I think the persecution of Protestants by the RCC and their authoritarian dictation to Catholic countries is repulsive. When I think of Catholic rulers, I think of Bloody Mary.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

That's my thinking also--that Baptist are a product of the Reformation. The first churches out were the Church of England and the Lutherans. That's the first wave. The second wave would be the Methodists and others who left the Church of England. The third wave would be Baptists and others who do not identify with the other two waves and who did not come from the first wave directly.

Notice that there really are three branches of Christianity because there are the Eastern Orthodox Churches, the Roman Catholic Church, and the Protestant denominations. The Eastern Orthodox left the RCC in 1054 and the Protestants a little over 500 years ago. Some people want to say Pentecostals are not Protestants but I think for convenience Pentecostals and Baptists are lumped into Protestants because they do not belong in the other two categories.

The RCC has had two schisms and is not appealing to Eastern Orthodox and not appealing to Protestants. I think the persecution of Protestants by the RCC and their authoritarian dictation to Catholic countries is repulsive. When I think of Catholic rulers, I think of Bloody Mary.

Well we don’t identify as Catholics or any of the Eucharist churches... ie Lutherans, Anglicans, Methodists.

We don’t identify with Presbyterians or any Reformed paedobaptists and/or Covenant Churches.

Again infant Baptist’s... that’s a no no. And we are not supposed to induct anyone without a born again profession of faith.

And never mind fighting with Catholics, I would be embarrassed that I would have to do battle with them in order to define myself... to me the best criticism of the bad is the practice of the better.

So I’m going to reject any suggestion that we Baptist’s ever had any background history with Protestants.

 

[church mouse guy]

Well we don’t identify as Catholics or any of the Eucharist churches... ie Lutherans, Anglicans, Methodists.

We don’t identify with Presbyterians or any Reformed paedobaptists and/or Covenant Churches.

Again infant Baptist’s... that’s a no no. And we are not supposed to induct anyone without a born again profession of faith.

And never mind fighting with Catholics, I would be embarrassed that I would have to do battle with them in order to define myself... to me the best criticism of the bad is to do it better.

So I’m going to reject any suggestion that we Baptist’s ever had any background history with Protestants.

Okay, I understand that point of view and many hold it so it is not so unusual but what do you say about the commonplace classification of the three divisions of Christianity:: Eastern Orthodox 1054, Roman Catholic, and Protestant (a little over 500 years ago)?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Okay, I understand that point of view and many hold it so it is not so unusual but what do you say about the commonplace classification of the three divisions of Christianity:: Eastern Orthodox 1054, Roman Catholic, and Protestant (a little over 500 years ago)?

Is there a Protestant denomination that is not sacramental? Are Reformed Protestants not pedo baptistic and Calvinistic? Do any of these Protestants stress born again salvation over church attendance? I can go on and on and on? How do you align yourself to Martin Luther and his persecution of Jews and Calvins influence in having decenters burn people at the stake? So these Protestants were representing Christ on earth? Frankly I would be ashamed to be part of them.

 

[Walpole]

Born Again --->

At what point in history did being born again become the moment when one decided to put down the bottle of Jack Daniel's?

 

[Van]

Adonia, may I point out to you that Baptist’s believe in salvation by grace. There are really only two positions that a person can occupy on this matter. One is that salvation is by grace, and the other is that salvation is by works. It cannot be a combination of the two. A person may say that he believes in salvation by grace, but if he sets forth any act of man's will, such as repentance, faith, baptism, or hearing the gospel, as a condition for obtaining it, then this position must be put on the works side. In other words, your catholism is intensely work’s based and that’s how you define yourselves. You must jump through the hoops of the sacraments in order to appease God. This is definitely not how my “religious society” views our relationship to Christ. Rather, it is He who does most of the heavy lifting for us. It is He, the Lord who provides saving grace so that we would be a new being.... thus born again.

Utter nonsense, faith is not counted as works. Calvinist doctrine on this point is as bogus as a three dollar bill.

Here is a link that might be useful:
Why Baptists are NOT Protestants!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Born Again --->

At what point in history did being born again become the moment when one decided to put down the bottle of Jack Daniel's?

Errrr, MacCallams

 

[Walter]

Born Again --->

At what point in history did being born again become the moment when one decided to put down the bottle of Jack Daniel's?

One of my favorite Lutheran Satire videos is: Messing With Dispensationalist.

Born Again --->

At what point in history did being born again become the moment when one decided to put down the bottle of Jack Daniel's?

Lutheran Satire is hilarious!

 

[Walpole]

One of my favorite Lutheran Satire videos is: Messing With Dispensationalist.

Lutheran Satire is hilarious!

That's a great one too!

Lutheran Satire has some great videos.

God bless and keep up the great work you are doing here.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I prefer this: simple & beautiful. My idea of Baptist’s!

 

[David Kent]

I do not see Wesley or Methodists ever held to Calvinist theology though, as was always based upon some form of Arminius!

Wesley was an Anglican and never wanted his Methodist Clubs to to separate from Canterbury.