Why Calvinism preaches a fraudulent gospel to some of the lost.

[MB]

MB, I have cited Scripture after Scripture to prove that the elect are from among all classes of people --not just from among the Jews. Your problem isn't with me but the Bible itself. You disbelieve major doctrines.

You are defeated because you haven't proven Gentiles are elect.
MB

 

[RipponRedeaux]

There is nothing major about false doctrines they are man made and are not the doctrine of Christ.
MB

You deny basic Bible doctrines. That's a fact. You have shown that by your many posts in this thread. You shy away from the Word of God like it's Kryptonite.

 

[MB]

You deny basic Bible doctrines. That's a fact. You have shown that by your many posts in this thread. You shy away from the Word of God like it's Kryptonite.

Not true at all I am a believer in God's word not your mumbo jumbo Gnosticism you preach.
MB

 

[RipponRedeaux]

You are defeated because you haven't proven Gentiles are elect.
MB

If you are a believer you are elect. If you are not a believer you are not elect. It's as simple as that.

Don't scissor out portions of God's Word that ought to be a comfort to believers.

 

[RipponRedeaux]

Not true at all I am a believer in God's word not your mumbo jumbo Gnosticism you preach.
MB

Have you taken Romans 8:31-39 to heart? Or do you think that doesn't apply to you?

 

[MB]

Have you taken Romans 8:31-39 to heart? Or do you think that doesn't apply to you?

Why yes I have have you?

 

[MB]

If you are a believer you are elect. If you are not a believer you are not elect. It's as simple as that.

Don't scissor out portions of God's Word that ought to be a comfort to believers.

I'm simply saved and I still do not and will not believe the Calvinist doctrine.
MB

 

[RipponRedeaux]

Why yes I have have you?

Of course. I believe and trust in those comforting and encouraging words that nothing will separate us (the elect) from the love of God. Who will bring any charge against God's elect ones? No one. God intercedes for us (the elect --no one else).

The predestined, called, justified and glorified are all of the same group --the elect.

 

[Silverhair]

In his High Priestly Prayer, Jesus did not pray for the salvation of all. He told the Father “I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours.” John 17:9 (ESV). Why would Jesus die for any he was unwilling to pray for?

Context helps but why would I expect a Calvinist to understand that

When you look at the context {Joh_17:1-26} you find that the Calvinist use of Joh_17:9 as a proof-text fails.
Proof-texting is the bane of good theology.

Jesus is praying for the disciples in Joh_17:9-19 but we see that Jesus includes ALL that will believe through their preaching. "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;.." Joh_17:20. Jesus then continues in His prayer to indicate the extent of the gospels reach "...that the world may believe that You sent Me" Joh_17:21.

 

[RipponRedeaux]

MP, do you believe the Scripture when it says that it is God who mercies whom He chooses to grant mercy and He hardens those whom He chooses to harden?

 

[RipponRedeaux]

Jesus is praying for the disciples in Joh_17:9-19 but we see that Jesus includes ALL that will believe through their preaching. "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;.." Joh_17:20. Jesus then continues in His prayer to indicate the extent of the gospels reach "...that the world may believe that You sent Me" Joh_17:21.

Don't neglect verse 9 of this famous chapter.

"I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours."

 

[RipponRedeaux]

I'm simply saved and I still do not and will not believe the Calvinist doctrine.
MB

Calvinistic doctrine is the whole counsel of the Word of God, so you would be in a world of trouble not to believe it.

 

[Silverhair]

Another blame God for mans sin post.

No just saying what your theology requires. I really cannot help it if you do not even know what your trusting in. Perhaps you should do a bit more study.

 

[Silverhair]

I corrected your false statement that Calvinists believe man has no freewill because God is sovereign. Man has no freewill because of their sin nature.

Your interpretation of my view of God’s sovereignty is that the “only reason” man has a sin nature is not because they rebelled against God but because God just gave it to to them. Additionally, I’m destroying God’s character.

I don’t think you understand what reformed believers actually believe, so you can only make non-sensical accusations.

Quite frankly, I have no desire to debate nonsense.

peace to you

According to the Calvinist view of God sovereignty He has to control all things. But it seems in this case you do not know what all things means. It seems your lack of ability to understand your own texts is your main problem aside from the fact you actually believe those texts.

 

[Silverhair]

show me where in the New Testament you see the disciples preaching a free gift of salvation. You do not find that. What you see is them preaching repentance. And following God. That is the gospel that salvation is available to those who believe. Those who believe are the elect. Therefore, it is not a fraudulent gospel. It is fact to say that those who believe will be saved. Because those who believe are elected.

Reformed I think you are finally getting it.
>>What you see is them preaching repentance. And following God.<<
So you understand that repentance comes before salvation. And no one would repent if they do not believe now would they? So Faith comes before salvation.

>>That is the gospel that salvation is available to those who believe. Those who believe are the elect.<<
And I agree salvation is indeed available to all and all that believe will be saved and they are called the elect.

>>Therefore, it is not a fraudulent gospel. It is fact to say that those who believe will be saved. Because those who believe are elected<<

See I knew that if you trusted the scriptures you would come to understand the truth.

 

[Silverhair]

And verse one of that chapter shows that is not talking about all individuals, but rather, all types of people.

You really need to understand what context means. It will help you understand scripture.

 

[Silverhair]

You have it exactly backward. Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit you must already have before you can believe in the bible sense.

So you have to be saved before you can believe. That is not even close to being biblical but it sure is Calvinistic.

 

[Silverhair]

Saved is the action of God in removing you from the bondage of sin and placing you in the Kingdom of God.
Grace (unmerited favor) is the reason God acted to save. Faith is the gift God gives upon saving us so that we stand before the Judge, justified in the gracious work of God alone.

>>Faith is the gift God gives upon saving us<< Well no wonder you have such a mixed up view of salvation. You think God saves you before you believe. You really need to study the bible more or at least learn to read it without your calvinist glasses on.

 

[RipponRedeaux]

aside from the fact you actually believe those texts.

That's fascinating statement you posted. He actually believes those texts, as do all Christians. How could it be otherwise? Don't you believe those texts?

 

[Silverhair]

It doesn't say Christ died for them. This is why your gospel doesn't work in this situation. The gospel is an ANNOUNCEMENT (= Preaching) that whoever believes has eternal life. Most do not believe. It never says Christ died for unbelievers.

That's strange, if Christ Jesus didn't die to save unbelievers then who did He die for? And before you say for the elect then you have to explain how the elect were not unbelievers. Your theology has way to many holes in it.