Why Calvinism preaches a fraudulent gospel to some of the lost.

[Silverhair]

That's fascinating statement you posted. He actually believes those texts, as do all Christians. How could it be otherwise? Don't you believe those texts?

Normal Calvinist response. If you are going to quote someone do it correctly. The texts, as you well know, were your calvinist texts that he believes. If a Calvinist actually believed what the bible says then they would not be Calvinists would they?

 

[Silverhair]

Cornelius was obviously born again long before he heard Peter preach. The gospel saves us from the pitfalls of life. But you must already be saved in order to hear it in truth.

So if a person is already saved then of what use is the gospel to them or for that matter why did Christ Jesus have to go to the cross? Your theology is made of hole cloth and the sad thing is you don't even know that.

 

[Silverhair]

Ezekiel uses the Hebrew word translated as Sovereign quite often in his prophesy.

There are no holes in God's supremacy over all things, which is what Sovereignty is addressing.

Do you reject the notion that God is Supreme over all His creation?
(MB probably won't answer this as he likely has me on ignore, so I post it for others.)

God is sovereign over His creation. He is just not sovereign over Calvinism. At least that is what they think. Calvinists want their god to be in control of all things except for man being able to freely chose to follow Him. Then it is no God can't do that as then that would make man superior to God. Really? Calvinists have such a low view of God that I am surprised that they allow Him do do anything in regard to salvation.

 

[Silverhair]

You respond because you are saved. You are not saved because you respond = you are your own savior, not Christ.

How does responding to the offer of salvation make someone their own savior? If I reach down my hand to help a drowning man and he takes my hand does that mean that he saved himself. Or are you saying that he was saved before I reached out my hand to help him?

 

[Silverhair]

This is not a rebuttal to my claim. It is a dodge. If your reaction saves you, you save yourself, not Christ. But the truth is only the saved can react in any true sense. Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, not the sinful flesh of the unsaved.

I was going to say a little bible study would help but in your case I think it would require a lot of bible study to get past your calvinism.

 

[canadyjd]

According to the Calvinist view of God sovereignty He has to control all things. But it seems in this case you do not know what all things means. It seems your lack of ability to understand your own texts is your main problem aside from the fact you actually believe those texts.

I never claim to speak for all “Calvinists” and I’m sure their views vary on certain points.

I understand “my texts” just fine. What I do not do is lecture other Christians about context, as you did with John 17, and then deliberately leave out a significant verse that defines the context of the passage.

That is deceitful on your part, and demonstrates a lack of understanding of proper methods of approaching scripture.

peace to you

 

[RipponRedeaux]

The texts, as you well know, were your calvinist texts that he believes.

A passage from Scripture is a passage from the breathed-out Spirit of God. You regard some texts as Calvinistic. So you want to disregard them?

 

[Reformed1689]

You really need to understand what context means. It will help you understand scripture.

I do, which is why I looked at the context of the verse. But thanks for letting me know that

 

[Reformed1689]

Reformed I think you are finally getting it.
>>What you see is them preaching repentance. And following God.<<
So you understand that repentance comes before salvation. And no one would repent if they do not believe now would they? So Faith comes before salvation.

>>That is the gospel that salvation is available to those who believe. Those who believe are the elect.<<
And I agree salvation is indeed available to all and all that believe will be saved and they are called the elect.

>>Therefore, it is not a fraudulent gospel. It is fact to say that those who believe will be saved. Because those who believe are elected<<

See I knew that if you trusted the scriptures you would come to understand the truth.

Please do not put words in my mouth.

 

[AustinC]

God is sovereign over His creation. He is just not sovereign over Calvinism. At least that is what they think. Calvinists want their god to be in control of all things except for man being able to freely chose to follow Him. Then it is no God can't do that as then that would make man superior to God. Really? Calvinists have such a low view of God that I am surprised that they allow Him do do anything in regard to salvation.

This place reveals prejudiced persons who are clueless about Reformed theology so they speak in broad caricatures of their own creation.

 

[Iconoclast]

No just saying what your theology requires. I really cannot help it if you do not even know what your trusting in. Perhaps you should do a bit more study.

You show once again you are not aware of what the theology actually is.

 

[Silverhair]

Don't neglect verse 9 of this famous chapter.

"I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours."

I don't forget what the bible says but it is clear that you do.

 

[Silverhair]

This place reveals prejudiced persons who are clueless about Reformed theology so they speak in broad caricatures of their own creation.

Austin if you refuse to see what the bible says that is your problem not mine. When you stop with the calvinist view and just trust the bible then you will come to see the truth. Hopefully that will not be to long in happenuing.

 

[Silverhair]

You show once again you are not aware of what the theology actually is.

When you just ignore that warts in your theology that does not make them go away. Open your eyes and see what your theology leads to. But that is something that seems to be beyond you at this time. Perhaps sometime in the future you will be able to see the truth of scripture.

 

[Silverhair]

I never claim to speak for all “Calvinists” and I’m sure their views vary on certain points.

I understand “my texts” just fine. What I do not do is lecture other Christians about context, as you did with John 17, and then deliberately leave out a significant verse that defines the context of the passage.

That is deceitful on your part, and demonstrates a lack of understanding of proper methods of approaching scripture.

peace to you

Do you not know what the word context means. look it up then make your comments.

 

[Iconoclast]

When you just ignore that warts in your theology that does not make them go away. Open your eyes and see what your theology leads to. But that is something that seems to be beyond you at this time. Perhaps sometime in the future you will be able to see the truth of scripture.

You have nothing scriptural so you try and provoke Calvinists.
The Calvinists are shutting you down over and over because you are not equipped to deal with scripture.
You suggest otherwise but cannot sustain a biblical position.

 

[Revmitchell]

Do you not know what the word context means. look it up then make your comments.

I can’t speak for the others on this board but whether you agree with him or not in my experience he is always as honest as he can be and his posts are full of integrity. On this subject he and I almost never agree but one never needs to doubt his sincerity

 

[canadyjd]

Do you not know what the word context means. look it up then make your comments.

You have no desire to discuss scripture or context. You only want to spew anti-Calvinist tripe that does nothing to further anyone’s understanding of Gods Word.

I’ll leave you to it

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

I can’t speak for the others on this board but whether you agree with him or not in my experience he is always as honest as he can be and his posts are full of integrity. On this subject he and I almost never agree but one never needs to doubt his sincerity

Thank you for the kind words.

I have always appreciated your well thought out views and general decency in debates. You support your views with scripture and consider what others say. Mostly.

peace to you

 

[Revmitchell]

Thank you for the kind words.

I have always appreciated your well thought out views and general decency in debates. You support your views with scripture and consider what others say. Mostly.

peace to you

If my posts appear to lack a level of consideration it is always intentional and provoked