Originally Posted by Darrell C View Post
Do you not see a problem with associating with people who "don't want church?" lol
Did Christ?
That is irrelevant, because Christ was found in the assembling of God's people despite His ministry to sinners.
And we do not equate ourselves precisely to Christ.
Christ also kicked over tables and whipped people, shall I use that to justify my own practice of it?
Please say no...I'm tempted sometimes.
Quote:
And blaming the fellowship the man who committed suicide attended makes very little sense. Is this a regular occurrence in that fellowship? Is suicide a common event among it's members?
What are you talking about.... what fellowship are you referring to?
This one:
My wife's friend's boyfriend just killed himself last week....they went to weekly church services. So how come nobody got close enough to him to pick up on his suicidal tendencies?
Few people actually share their innermost feelings with their fellowship...except with those they have come to be in closer relationship with.
See what I mean?
The truth is that had their been close fellowship this man may have received counseling that may have saved his physical life. Let me ask you, do you feel, had you been privy to this man's depression, that perhaps you may have been able to counsel him? Most would probably say yes. I would like to think I could have.
Are you asking what church he belonged to?
Nope.
Nope.
What matters is that this man did not even let his wife in that she might have understood the depth of his depression. Surely she would have taken steps to deal with an issue like that had she understood the man's state.
Quote:
So too, with that man, it had no corporate tenor, it was a decision made by the man himself, an unequalled selfish decision, which I am sure you will agree...was not approved of by his wife. So let's lay the blame where it lies, and not use this as a reason why people should not fellowship with other Christians in an assembly.
Why are you being presumptuous....I did not lay the blame at anyone's feet.
Well, forgive me if I have misread this...
My wife's friend's boyfriend just killed himself last week....they went to weekly church services. So how come nobody got close enough to him to pick up on his suicidal tendencies?
...but it seems to me you are blaming the church for not "getting close enough." The truth is that it was not the church's responsibility to get close unless that was the desired result. It would be one thing if you said this man was rejected after sincerely seeking out fellowship with this or any other group. Our fellowship is only what we make of it, and if we expect those in the church to take control and forget we have a part to play ourselves in any relationship, then we can only expect results that will likely be disappointing.
When I was in school, don't ask me why, but I was asked on a number of occasions if I needed a special invitation, lol. Anyone coming to the fellowship I attend might decide not to come because people are too friendly. That gets annoying, don't ya think?
However had the man communicated this to his pastor, I would have hoped that it would have been addressed....however I will never know.
Now you're on target, and bringing this man into accountability.
I don't think most people (I'm sure we could find one if we tried), understanding a situation like this, would fail to give it proper attention, and go out of their way to help someone in such dire straits. However, that doesn't mean we expect people to be mind readers.
What does the Scripture say? Ye have not because ye ask not. Ye ask and have not because ye ask amiss.
Again, we would think that if this man had conveyed the depths of this situation to anyone, it would have been his wife. If he shut her out why would we assume he would have conveyed this to anyone else?
But I cant stop thinking if a person went into a depression, did they not deal with this with the sage advise of the Pastor, Priest Rabbi etc.
Doesn't sound like it. Suicide is one of those things we seldom understand. I think usually there are aspects which contribute, such as drugs or alcohol, or even a mental issue. That's the ravages of the consequences of sin. Did a job not long ago where the guy who owned the house lost his wife, fell into drinking due to his sorrow, lost his license, then his job, then his house. He forsook his fatherly duties and did not send his son to school. He was completely out of sorts due to his loss. He was arrested for DUI again, and the day he was to go back to court, after being told by his lawyer he would likely be incarcerated, he went out front of his house and shot himself. His sister, who was going to take him to court found him.
Now we can have compassion on such a man but at the same time we do not overlook that this man denied his love to his son, his sister, and any family he had. He was self absorbed, and while losing a spouse can do that, I don't think we can excuse his actions or justify them in any way.
My hope is that the woman you mentioned will go on to live life and that she will overcome what I am sure is unbearable grief at this time. I think that fellowship with Christians can help her with that, and my advice to her would be to find a Bible teaching and believing fellowship and that this will help her through her grief.
All of this just to reiterate that fellowships can be good for us as we seek to grow in the Lord. Again, it is a training ground and I have learned a lot about myself through it. Doesn't mean I am in church every time the door opens, but, the primary point is that I feel those who do not want to go have reasons that have nothing to do with fellowships themselves, but are related more directly to the stage that person is in at the time. I think there is a stage of disillusionment that we all go through, some of us, lol, more than once. However, Our role in the Body of Christ can be, sometimes, tied to the fellowships we attend. There are many who have been placed in such areas of ministry who, were they going it alone, would not be performing those ministries.
And again, sorry for rambling on so long, I should have been gone hours ago. But, for me there is nothing better than speaking with my brethren, and this type of fellowship can be found in churches all over the world. For me, who likes a more doctrinal discussion, it is not often I find that in my fellowship. But one thing I can't do on the forum is join my voice with others in praising God in song. I take it for granted that my Pastor is the God ordained shepherd of my fellowship, and I still believe God speaks to the hearts of men through preachers.
He's not always doctrinally correct, but that's a secret we'll share, okay?
Gotta get going.
God bless.
