God from eternity past, always and only, intended to save the elect. He did not coerce them to be His. The Holy Spirit worked in their hearts and made them spiritually alive from the dead: He regenerated them, and this is how they acquired faith unto salvation. Regeneration always precedes faith. In declaring they are saved, they mean it was God enabling them to have faith in Christ.
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Why do Arminians have such a small view of God?
- Thread starter MennoSota
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God from eternity past, always and only, intended to save the elect. He did not coerce them to be His. The Holy Spirit worked in their hearts and made them spiritually alive from the dead: He regenerated them, and this is how they acquired faith unto salvation. Regeneration always precedes faith. In declaring they are saved, they mean it was God enabling them to have faith in Christ.
Calv1
Active Member
It's so amazing, what you stated is so simple, clear, and biblical. In response, since they are ignorant of this fact, and too lazy to study, "But God doesn't want robots", which we aren't, but when pressed for chapter and verse they are not to be found, that's why Arminianism is human philosophy, IE Paganism.
Calv1
Active Member
OH my gosh! Look how far Arminians will go, "We don't know if the book of Job was inspired", WOW, why not just have a Thomas Jefferson Bible, you know cut out all you don't like?
Calv1
Active Member
You will get opinion, philosophy, but never scripture, don't hold your breathe, they don't have scripture to back up their human traditions, this is why RC Sproul says we live in a Pagan society, Paganism is what man believes, contrary to scripture, so don't expect scripture from these guys, only their opinions, just pathetic.
Calv1
Active Member
You are dead wrong, scripture is against you.
First, he is correct that God had "Blinded their eyes, and hardened their hearts lest they believe". They would have "believed", like people like you do, but don't truly believe the word, so you'd have a bunch of Pharisee's misleading people to the nature of Christ, as you do. On the very night of His betrayal, in His High Priestly prayer to the Father, Jesus, who you say wants all saved, prayed, and remember His prayers always come true "Father, I do NOT PRAY FOR THE WORLD, but for those you have given me"
Second, you are just lying about Pharaoh, this is making it's way around the net. God FIRST told Moses "I will harden Pharaohs heart, it's only later that Scripture states "Pharaoh hardened his heart", so you have twisted scripture to meet your needs, you state in his free will choice that he hardened his heart, then God confirmed him, this is a lie, this is what Arminians always do, scripture doesn't fit your theology, so you just lie to others.
Isaiah prayed "Lord why have you HARDENED OUR HEARTS so we fear you not", no ambiguity there! "The Lord OPENED LYDIA'S HEART so she could understand the things they were saying", "The Kings heart is as streams of water in the Lords hands, He turns it any way He wishes", "I prevented him from sinning against me", "The Lord incited David to take a census", "The Lord hardened the Ammonites hearts that they should make war with the Israelites and be utterly destroyed". When the man cussed out David for Davids sin the Kings people were going to arrest him, David said "leave him alone what he says is from the Lord". "The thoughts of man belongs to him, but every word is of the Lord". shall I go on?
If man had free will, Christ may have never been crucified, they may have made Him King, and God's plans once again frustrated by mans free will. If man had free will no point in praying for them, after all God is supposedly doing all He can, and if He did answer your prayer He'd have to violate mans free will". God could never be certain that ANYONE would believe in Christ, nope Peter, John, they could have all fallen away.
Your theology is right on par with Rome, it has nothing to do with the Reformers. Do you even know the MAIN POINT of the Reformation? Indulges? The Lords Supper? Nope, FREE WILL, Rome believed in free will, so they robbed God of glory as you do, taking credit for things that God says are of Him, Luther, when debating Erasmus in "The Bondage of the Will", congratulated Erasmus "I thank you my dear Erasmus for not boring me with trivial matters and getting to the heart of the matter, Free Will".
You should study Reformed Theology some time and join us, the Roman side that you adhere to is heresy, trust me it's not biblical. If you don't understand, fine, STUDY, see what God claims of Himself "Who creates evil, is it not I says the Lord", you just have many category errors like Rome, God is so pure that He can't look upon sin, man and devils deserve NO MERCY, the fact that we even draw a breathe is an act of SUCH INCREDIBLE GRACE YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY UNDERSTAND, LOVE DEEPER THAN ANY OCEAN, for God to delay the unregenerate is LOVE BEYOND WORDS, and why He created us, for that exact reason, namely to show HIS GLORY. Reality is not about YOU, but about GOD, He created everything as a overflow of Joy in His own glory, and His glory will be displayed, the glory of His mercy and wrath. So anyways study Protestant theology, and join us, the Reformation is still on going, there never was an end.
You flat lied about what I posted.
Maybe in Calvinism indoctrination class you missed the fact that The Bible contains accurately recorded false statements. The book of Job, contains several of them.
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He didn't lie about what you said. I read what you said. However, you may not have meant what you said.
You said Job's words may not have been inspired. However, God recorded it and 2 Timothy 3:16 tells us that all scripture is given by inspiration of God.
Perhaps, then, you can see how what you said leads to the comment Calv1 made.
Are you saying that Job made a false statement when he said, "Shall we praise God only when he brings good and not when he brings evil."?
How do you explain the prophet Habakkuk being told by God that God raised up wicked Babylon to accomplish his will regarding Israel?
Would you care to clarify?
My statement is plain. The Book of Job is inspired. That does not mean every statement in the Book was given under inspiration of The Spirit. The book is riddled with accurately recorded wrong information. God wanted the information to be in scripture as written. The book is inspired, but not every statement in the book was made under inspiration of The Holy Spirit.
The sooner you slay your sacred cow and place it upon an altar and offer it up, the better.
Bow to God and His sovereignity.
Yeah, riiiiiiight.
Not once did God tell Moses to tell Pharaoh and his ppl to worship Him. It was "tell him to let My ppl go that they may worship Me."
Please slay your sacred cow.
Is it inaccurate for Job to have said "Shall we praise God only for the good and not for the evil"? Is Job declaring a heresy? Was God then wrong to say that Job was righteous in all his ways? Think through your suggestion before you respond. Do you want to go down that path?
Afterward Moses and Aaron went to Pharaoh and said, “This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘Let my people go, so that they may hold a festival to me in the wilderness.’”[Exodus 5:1]
Then the Lord said to Moses, “Go to Pharaoh and say to him, ‘This is what the Lord says: Let my people go, so that they may worship me.[Exodus 8:1]
Then the Lord said to Moses, “Get up early in the morning and confront Pharaoh as he goes to the river and say to him, ‘This is what the Lord says: Let my people go, so that they may worship me.[Exodus 8:20]
Then the Lord said to Moses, “Go to Pharaoh and say to him, ‘This is what the Lord, the God of the Hebrews, says: “Let my people go, so that they may worship me.”[Exodus 9:1]
Then the Lord said to Moses, “Get up early in the morning, confront Pharaoh and say to him, ‘This is what the Lord, the God of the Hebrews, says: Let my people go, so that they may worship me,[Exodus 9:13]
So Moses and Aaron went to Pharaoh and said to him, “This is what the Lord, the God of the Hebrews, says: ‘How long will you refuse to humble yourself before me? Let my people go, so that they may worship me.[Exodus 10:3]
Not once was Moses instructed to tell Pharaoh to worship God. Not once. Pharaoh's will was bent towards sin and self and was not free. God planned to wipe him and his army off the face of the earth. And He did, too.
Please sacrifice your sacred cow, place it upon the altar and bow to the sovereignity of God.
Lol. Build your straw man and declare no one has answered you.
Here it is...I believe as does Sovereign Grace does.....
"Adam freely operated within the boundaries God set."
Move on brother.....
Lol. This is your defense of this statement? Really? You actually think that God meant that these would believe a false Christ if He did not blind them? Wow, you guys will go to no end to twist God's word into something that will fit your off the cuff statements.
No, God was not speaking about them believing a false Christ, that is just silly.
Here it is for all to read...
"He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them." (John 12:40)
As you can see, the result of their belief would be conversion and healing. Wow, this is just to easy....
Yes sir, I will try to locate that cow ASAP! Oh wait! Jesus is our sacrifice. I'll stick with Jesus.
God did not tell Adam to worship God either. What's up with that?
It was God's plan that Adam would sin. So was this Adam's free will to sin or was it God causing Adam to sin?
Great, you believe that we act within the will of God. There is no free will. Only a will that acts within God's Sovereign will. I am glad you have changed your position.
Lol. I have not changed any position. Man's will has been given freedom to operate within the parameters God Has set. This is and has always been any Christian's definition of "freewill". You don't like the term, well, quite frankly that is your own personal issue. It doesn't change the fact of what Christians mean by freewill. It's all just part of the deflection campaign by Calvinist.
You don't grasp the truth that your argument is against free will. Your will never supercedes God's will. If God chooses you for damnation, you will be damned. If God chooses you for reconciliation, you will be reconciled. You cannot go outside the parameters of God's Sovereign will.
Job was righteous in all his ways in the same sense that David was a man after Gods own heart. We know that only one man was literally righteous in all His ways. That knowledge tells us that God used a figure of speech. Job was being truthful based on the knowledge he had. He had no knowledge of Satan. He attributed the actions of Satan to God. God does not commit evil. Think about that statement before you answer it.
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