Why Do Both Paul and Peter refer to The Jewish Foundation of the Church as a Nation

[Ascetic X]

Galatians 6:15-16, For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Yes. Those who say there is no such thing as Jew or gentile today forget that this is true only in Christ.

Outside of Christ, there are still Jew and gentile, even as there are still male and female. Only in Christ are all distinctions no longer in effect.

 

[JD731]

This post is for the purpose of helping to clarify for those who have been confused by their teachers about certain points of God's dispensational divisions between the church and the world, unsaved Israel and the Jewish remnant according to the election of grace, which is the Jewish part of the church, and what it means when Paul says in Romans 11 that all Israel will be saved.

All those who have been converted between the resurrection of Christ and now have been baptized by the Spirit into the body of Christ that he is forming in this age of grace. This is nearly complete now. When it is complete the age of grace as a dispensation will also end. The church will be gathered together and receive a physical resurrection, a glorification if you will, with new bodies able to inhabit heaven in the presence of the Father.

At that time there will not be a single saved person on the earth to begin what the Bible has taught us is the 7 year time of Jacob's trouble, also known as the tribulation and the great tribulation. God will send two witnesses, Elijah and Moses (two for testimony) and Israel will endure the 7 fold furnace of fire for the purpose of purification and at the very end there will not be a single soul left on the earth (though very few in number left alive) who is not saved to enter into the final 1000 years dispensation of righteousness, albeit all who are born during this time will need a new birth and there will be many who will not be saved.

This is a broad outline but it is true. The nation of Israel will be on earth along with the saved nations and the church is the heavenly family. The trinitarian signature is apparent.

 

[Ascetic X]

This post is for the purpose of helping to clarify for those who have been confused by their teachers about certain points of God's dispensational divisions between the church and the world, unsaved Israel and the Jewish remnant according to the election of grace, which is the Jewish part of the church, and what it means when Paul says in Romans 11 that all Israel will be saved.

All those who have been converted between the resurrection of Christ and now have been baptized by the Spirit into the body of Christ that he is forming in this age of grace. This is nearly complete now. When it is complete the age of grace as a dispensation will also end. The church will be gathered together and receive a physical resurrection, a glorification if you will, with new bodies able to inhabit heaven in the presence of the Father.

At that time there will not be a single saved person on the earth to begin what the Bible has taught us is the 7 year time of Jacob's trouble, also known as the tribulation and the great tribulation. God will send two witnesses, Elijah and Moses (two for testimony) and Israel will endure the 7 fold furnace of fire for the purpose of purification and at the very end there will not be a single soul left on the earth (though very few in number left alive) who is not saved to enter into the final 1000 years dispensation of righteousness, albeit all who are born during this time will need a new birth and there will be many who will not be saved.

This is a broad outline but it is true. The nation of Israel will be on earth along with the saved nations and the church is the heavenly family. The trinitarian signature is apparent.

So you don’t think the New Jerusalem coming down from heaven to earth is for Christians?

It is just for the remnant of Israel, while born again Jews and gentiles in the church, the body of Christ, will live in heaven forever?

 

[JD731]

So you don’t think the New Jerusalem coming down from heaven to earth is for Christians?

It is just for the remnant of Israel, while born again Jews and gentiles in the church, the body of Christ, will live in heaven forever?

New Jerusalem is the heavenly city that comes down out of heaven (not to the earth) in the eternal state during the new heaven and the new earth. Picture a satellite city whose light lightens the earth. It is the paradise of God where the Godhead dwells and where the throne of God is. It is the abode of the church in which the Holy Spirit dwells. That is why this verse is written such:

9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb s wife. (the Lamb's wife is the church)
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. (remember the 12 foundation stones of the church, the apostles of Eph 2:18-20.
15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.
19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.
21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb s book of life.

I am not sure why religious men cannot believe the words that are written here but there are nations walking in the light of this city in the eternal state.

 

[percho]

The throne of God, which Jesus will sit upon is in heaven. The 12 thrones of the Israelites are in heaven (actually it is 24 thrones per Revelation) all of which are in heaven (if you believe they are literal thrones rather than symbolic)

The word “nation” refers to a designated people, NOT a physical location on the earth, which is the context of the passage.

You are applying a 21st century understanding of the word “nation” as a physical location to a 1st Century document which is very clearly referring to PEOPLE, not geography.

Such is the illogical conclusions of dispensationalism.

Peace to you

Deut 32:8 When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people [? Nations] according to the number of the children of Israel.

Six of one 1/2 dozen of the other?

 

[canadyjd]

Thank you for your comments.

Your welcome

Peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

Deut 32:8 When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people [? Nations] according to the number of the children of Israel.

Six of one 1/2 dozen of the other?

Well, no.

The “nations” referred to people, not geography. That God “set bounds” doesn’t change that fact.

Modern language equates “nations” with geography. That’s not how scripture defines “nations”.

Peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

I do understand the general summary of dispensationalism. I simply disagree.

In Matthew 24-25, Jesus states there will be a tribulation that has never been seen before or will be seen again. That can only refer to the “great tribulation”

He then then says “after” that tribulation, He will return, the elect will be gathered from the ends of the earth, followed by the Great throne judgement.

IMO, dispensationalism cannot reconcile the Words of our Lord in any way that conforms to the context of this passage.

Coupled with Paul’s teaching in Ephesians that the two groups (Jews and Gentiles) have been made into “one new man” by the cross of Christ, bound together by God Holy Spirit.. there simply cannot be a separate future for Israel.

We’ve been through this discussion several times. “Confusion” has been mentioned as the motivation of this thread.

I, very respectfully, suggest the confusion comes dispensational theology that is so clearly contrary to scripture.

With that, I’ll not bother you folks anymore.

Peace to you

 

[kyredneck]

The word “nation” refers to a designated people, NOT a physical location on the earth, which is the context of the passage.

Bingo! I think that @JD731's Dispy blinders keeps him from understanding to whom this prophecy was addressed:

Deuteronomy Chapter 32

21​	They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; They have provoked me to anger with their vanities: And I will move them to jealousy with those that are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.

Romans Chapter 10

19​	But I say, Did Israel not know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy with that which is no nation, With a nation void of understanding will I anger you.

Acts Chapter 13

44​	And the next sabbath almost the whole city was gathered together to hear the word of God.
45​	But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with jealousy, and contradicted the things which were spoken by Paul, and blasphemed.

Matthew 27
17 When therefore they were gathered together, Pilate said unto them, Whom will ye that I release unto you? Barabbas, or Jesus who is called Christ?
18 For he knew that for envy they had delivered him up.

Acts 4
1 And as they spake unto the people, the priests and the captain of the temple and the Sadducees came upon them,
2 being sore troubled because they taught the people, and proclaimed in Jesus the resurrection from the dead. Acts 4

Acts 5
16 And there also came together the multitudes from the cities round about Jerusalem, bring sick folk, and them that were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.
17 But the high priest rose up, and all they that were with him (which is the sect of the Sadducees), and they were filled with jealousy,

Acts 17
5 But the Jews, being moved with jealousy, took unto them certain vile fellows of the rabble, and gathering a crowd, set the city on an uproar; and assaulting the house of Jason, they sought to bring them forth to the people.