Why Do Both Paul and Peter refer to The Jewish Foundation of the Church as a Nation

[Ascetic X]

2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.

What is the day after the 6th day for men? We call it Saturday now but they called it the 7th day. They also called it the Sabbath. God also called it the :day of the Lord in all his prophetic books. God said men ought to work 6 days and rest on the sabbath. That is what he did in his work of redemption. He worked 6 days and he finished the work and Jesus even said "it is finished." On the seventh day Jesus rested in the tomb the whole day.

They went upon a very high mountain. A mountain in scripture symbolism is a kingdom. the higher the mountain the greater the kingdom. Then Jesus was transfigured in their presence. He is described as he will be when he is glorified. The 3 apostles were there representing the church in this kingdom and they were enveloped in the cloud, representing the Holy Spirit in his relationship to the church in this kingdom of God. Moses and Elijah were there representing the OT saints and the tribulation saints who were resurrected from the dead. All those saints would hold positions at the top of the mountain. At the foot of the mountain were the nations walking in the light of the shining and glorious person of Jesus Christ. All three members of the Godhead were represented in the kingdom, Jesus transfigured, the Holy Spirit, the cloud, and the voice of God the Father who gave Jesus his authority.

This is what Jesus showed these men and he said it was the kingdom in it's power that they saw. I already know it does not matter to some what Jesus says, In this way the 3 apostles were eye witnesses of the kingdom of God and reported it to us so we can believe in the physical and earthly kingdom of God with it's divisions and splendor.

This kingdom of God is going to be visible on the earth during the 7th day of the week of thousand year days of God and he clearly says so.

Mountain in the Bible represents an elevated place where heaven meets earth. Jesus often went up there to pray.

Moses and Elijah represent the Law and the prophets.

No, God does not clearly say that the kingdom will be visible “during the 7th day of the week of thousand year days.”

You arrive at this opinion through your biblical numerology theory which is wrong.

As long as you persist in equating a biblical day with a thousand years, you will continue to err in prophecy.

 

[JD731]

Mountain in the Bible represents an elevated place where heaven meets earth. Jesus often went up there to pray.

Moses and Elijah represent the Law and the prophets.

No, God does not clearly say that the kingdom will be visible “during the 7th day of the week of thousand year days.”

You arrive at this opinion through your biblical numerology theory which is wrong.

As long as you persist in equating a biblical day with a thousand years, you will continue to err in prophecy.

Ascetic X, thank you for your thoughts on this subject but the language of Mark in Mk 9 surely shows that Jesus is equating the seventh day of the week as the visible kingdom of God. It took place after 6 days. Also he thought that a mountain represented a physical kingdom in the similitudes of the prophetic scriptures and was a long standing practice of the prophets of old.

First, Moses said these things in Ps 90 where his psalm is dealing with the concept of time. He says in that psalm about God that "a thousand years in thy sight is as yesterday when it is passed and as a watch in the night." In Hosea 12:10 the prophets says this:

Ho 12:10 I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.

Jesus spoke to the rulers of Israel in parables, where he made some earthly thing represented a truth of God, after they sentenced him to death. When asked by the disciples why he spoke to the rulers from that point going forward in parables he answered that it was to conceal truth from them while revealing it to those who have his mind. God will not bring his mysteries to light to those who refuse to believe them. You may read about this in Mt 13.

Moses Psalm 90 is filled with similitudes. He deals with the brevity of life and identifies how long a generation is to a man. After all this he makes this statement.

12 So teach us to number our days, that we may apply our hearts unto wisdom.
This is good advice from the prophet Moses. We need to be aware of the similitudes of the days and number them.

Acts 3:22
For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

The millennial reign of Christ on earth in time is said to be one thousand years long and it is identified in 30 instances over a period of nearly 900 years by 12 different prophets as being the DAY of the Lord, and always in the future tense. They are identical.

Having said all this to show you I have a Bible reason for numbering the days and this explanation is just a part of it, I understand that you have your mind made up that I am wrong about it, and that is okay. You have a right to your opinion and I respect that right. But I do not want to be perceived as arguing so this will be my last comment to you on this subject and we can continue as friends.

 

[percho]

@JD731

You are correct and 1 Cor 15:20-26 shows the same

There is death, the enemy of man.
Jesus the man died and has been made alive out of death, the enemy.
Those who are his, will be made alive out of the death, the enemy, when he comes again. Why is he making them alive again at this time? To rule with him?

However the enemy, the death, still reigns over the rest of the dead.

1 Cor 15:24 Thereafter the finish of the enemy, the death having reign, the rest of the dead are to be made alive. When? Just before Christ delivers up the kingdom to the Father.

The last enemy to be destroyed is, the death, when the rest of the dead are made alive.

It is not stated in 1 Cor 15 yet you know there is time involved from when he comes again unto the last enemy, the death, being destroyed by the context of verse 24 and 25. How much time?


My best guess from other scripture would be 1000 years.

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

They spoke about his coming in revelation glory with the earthly glorious kingdom of Jesus Christ in mind.

"in revelation glory with the earthly glorious kingdom of Jesus Christ" has NEVER been in Jesus Christ's Mind.

I haven't seen it in the Bible.

There are a lot of extra-Biblical Heresies where NO VERSES AT ALL in the Scriptures to support them
and this one of them, in your mind.

Let me remind you fellows that Jesus Christ believed that there is a future for Israel, with her 12 tribes, on the earth

Would you like to give a Scripture reference to 'remind' us?

 

[Ascetic X]

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

Why Do Both Paul and Peter refer to The Jewish Foundation of the Church as a Nation​

The same reason 'they call fans of the Kentucky Wildcats' basketball team, "the Big Blue Nation", because their school color was 'blue' and those saints were a portion of the population who share their relationship with Jesus in common, just like fans of a sports team are a portion of the population who are all in favor of one team.

Although, most everyone of these people have been Saved, baptized by the Authority of God which came through God Sending John the Baptist to baptize, and were members of their local churches, once they were Established around their area.

By calling them by 'Nation' they are recognizing the Power of God these saints represent, and it is the same as calling them God's Kingdom, who are made up of all Saved souls who are alive at any given time on Earth.

As a Nation, or Kingdom they are under Jesus as their King, Who is Ruling and Reigning in His Power through them as kings and priests, with His various churches being the spearhead in the forefront in that Power of the Cause of Christ and the Business of God on Earth.

The Jewish Foundation of the Church.​

Paul and Peter were Jewish but that Jewish association, nor the Jewish economy, nor the religion of the Jews, had any influence on the Founding of the churches of the Lord Jesus Christ.

If Jesus had been baptized to induct Himself into anything relative to the Jewish Religion and Priesthood, it would have been done by a Jewish Priest. The very fact that God Sent John to baptize shows that his baptism was something New and not a continuation of any Old Testament rite or ceremony, which could make an association with Jesus church He Built having anything Jewish to do with His church's Founding, except that He was a Jew.

Jesus Walked Sixty Miles to Get a man to baptize Him.

"In those days came John the Baptist, Preaching in the Wilderness of Judea." Matthew 3:1.

God Sent John the Baptist to prepare the 'material' that Jesus would then Build His first church.

That God-Honored Official, Heavenly Blessed 'material' Jesus Used to Divinely Found and begin to Build the Kind of church that He Talked about, was the Disciples themselves who John had baptized, by the Authority of God.

Those Disciples were then Constituted as an Organic local church Organism, when they as men where Sent to Preach the Gospel personally and baptize Saved souls, individual by individual.

However, that Great Commission and the Authority to baptize were Given to His church(es) as a Divine Organization and it was to that Perpetual Organization that Jesus Promised He said, "I Am with you alway, even unto the End of the World", since He couldn't be "with" those Disciples who were all dead not too long after He Spoke those Words to them.

"And I Say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this Rock I Will Build My church;
and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it." Matthew 16:18.

Jesus Founded His first church and Promised to be with her "even unto the End of the World."

"Teaching them to Observe all things whatsoever I have Commanded you:
and, lo, I Am with you alway, even unto the End of the World. Amen," Mathew 16:18.

 

[Ascetic X]

Baptism was part of the initiation process for converts to Judaism. John the Baptist’s ministry in the Jordan River reflected this existing Jewish practice of immersion, specifically calling for repentance, and he was often referred to as "the baptizer" or "the immerser".

Jewish people in the first century practiced immersion in water (often termed "baptism" or tevilah) as a ritual act of purification, repentance, or conversion. While Levite priests performed ceremonial washings before temple service, the widespread act of immersion in a mikveh (ritual pool) was a common Jewish practice for purification from ritual impurity or to mark a spiritual change.

Because his father, Zechariah, was a Levitical priest and his mother, Elizabeth, was a descendant of Aaron, John the Baptist was of pure priestly lineage.

His father Zechariah was a Jewish high priest, of the tribe of Levi, who served in the innermost part of the temple, the Holy of Holies, and thus would have been respected among the priestly class. His wife, Elizabeth, was barren, and both were aged and childless. He was taking his turn serving in the temple when an angel appeared to him and told him that he and his wife would have a son, who would be marked by the Holy Spirit from birth, and who would be a prophet to the nation of Israel.

However, John did not follow the traditional path of a Temple priest. Instead, he separated himself from the religious establishment to live an ascetic life in the wilderness as a prophet. His lineage credentials as a priest enabled John the Baptist to baptize.

So the priestly baptism tradition of the Jewish religion was indeed continued and it retained its influence on the Christian church, which was mostly Jewish at first.

Thus this statement is wrong:

@Alan Dale Gross

Paul and Peter were Jewish but that Jewish association, nor the Jewish economy, nor the religion of the Jews, had any influence on the Founding of the churches of the Lord Jesus Christ.

If Jesus had been baptized to induct Himself into anything relative to the Jewish Religion and Priesthood, it would have been done by a Jewish Priest. The very fact that God Sent John to baptize shows that his baptism was something New and not a continuation of any Old Testament rite or ceremony, which could make an association with Jesus church He Built having anything Jewish to do with His church's Founding, except that He was a Jew.

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

Mt 19:27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

The Literal Interpretation of the genuine New Dispensation of the New Testament called "the Regeneration".

"Walvoord cites Mt. 19:28 as proof that in the Millennium the Apostles will sit on twelve (earthly) thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. But this text says nothing whatsoever about a millennium, or one-thousand years, or a day, or The End of Time.

"To the contrary, it explicitly states that the Apostles’ rule will occur “in the Regeneration.”

And in the previous verse we see that the context of "in the Regeneration"
has to do with the Apostles when they asked the Lord,
"we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?"
and in this verse, "ye which have followed me"...
then, in the next verse, "And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for My Name's Sake", "shall receive an hundred fold:"

Mark adds, "now in this time"; and Luke likewise, "in this present time", in this World;
which may be understood of as Spiritual things,
the Love of God,
the Presence of Christ,
the Comforts of the Holy Ghost,
the Communion of saints,
and the Joys and Pleasures felt in the enjoyment of these things,
being an hundred times more and better to them, than all they have left or lost for Christ's sake, nor of the temporal things, so in Mark it seems to be explained, that such shall now receive an hundred fold in a similar way.

"Now, for the literal reading and Interpretation of Mathew 19:28; "in the Regeneration."

"This clause is so placed, that it may be read in connection with the preceding words "we have forsaken all, and followed thee", and be understood of the Disciples following Christ' "in the Regeneration"; meaning, not the Grace of Regeneration in Salvation, in which they could not be said, with propriety, to follow Christ; and one of them was never a Partaker of it:

"but the New State of things is being spoken of and has to do with the churches of God, which is intended and was Foretold, and is called the Time of Reformation, or Setting all things Right,
which began upon the Sealing Up of the Law, and the Prophets,
and the Ministry of John the Baptist, and of Christ;
who both, when they began to Preach, Declared, that this Time, which they call the Kingdom of Heaven, was at Hand, and was already Ushering in at that moment.

"Now the Twelve Apostles followed Christ here:
believed, and professed Him to be the Messiah;
they received, what the Jews called, His New Doctrine,
and Preached it to others;
they submitted to the New Ordinance of baptism,
and followed Christ, and attended Him wherever He went, working Miracles, Preaching the Gospel,
and reforming the minds and manners of men.

"Now this is the GENUINE NEW BIBLICAL DISPENSATION called 'the Regeneration', and which more manifestly took place after our Lord's Resurrection, and Ascension, and the Pouring Down of the Spirit;

Wherefore the phrase "in the Regeneration" is and may be connected with the following words,

"when the Son of man shall Sit in the Throne of His Glory in the Regeneration";

"not in the Resurrection of the dead, or at the Last Judgment, but in this New State of things, which now began to appear with another face: for the Apostles having a New Commission to Preach the Gospel to all the World; and being Endued with Power from on High for such Service, in a short time went every where Preaching the Word, with great success.

"Gentiles were converted, as well as Jews,
and both brought into a Gospel church state, by the Lord's New Ordinance in His churches of baptism;
the ceremonies of the Old Law being Abolished, were disused;
and again the Ordinances of baptism, and the Lord's Supper, where practised everywhere;

("In the Jews Religion Old Things Passed Away, and in Jesus Religion All Things became New:
agreeably to this the Syriac version renders the phrase, "in the New World"; and so the Persic.

"The Arabic reads it, "in the generation", or "age to come"; which the Jews so often call the World, or Age to Come, the Kingdom of the Messiah, or the Gospel Dispensation,)

"so "the Regeneration" is referring to the New Testament Church Age, which is our current Inner-Advental Period, between the Lord's First Coming and His Public Ministry and Ascension, until the Lord's Second Coming at the End of the World, when Jesus Will Separate the sheep from the goats and Create the New Heaven and New Earth.

"When the Son of man shall Sit in the Throne of His Glory", or Glorious Throne; as He did when He Ascended into Heaven, after His Earthly Ministry (Revelation 4) and Sat Down at the Right Hand of God; and was then Exalted as a Prince, and Made, or Declared to be Lord and Christ; and was Crowned in Human Nature, with Honor, and Glory, and Angels, Principalities, and Powers, made subject to Him:

"ye also shall sit upon Twelve Thrones:" for though Judas fell from his Apostleship, yet Matthias was chosen in his place, and took his position, and made up the number twelve; which is a Metaphorical Phrase, setting forth the Honour, Dignity, and Authority of their office and ministry, by which they should be

"Judging the Twelve Tribes of Israel"; Doctrinally and Practically;
by charging the Jews with the sin of crucifying Christ,
Condemning the Jews for their unbelief, and rejection of Jesus,
denouncing the Wrath of God, and the heaviest judgments that should fall upon them, as a Nation, for their sin;
and by turning from the Jews to the Gentiles, under which judgment they continue to this day."

Adapted from: Matthew 19 Gill's Exposition

 

[percho]

The Literal Interpretation of the genuine New Dispensation of the New Testament called "the Regeneration".

"Walvoord cites Mt. 19:28 as proof that in the Millennium the Apostles will sit on twelve (earthly) thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. But this text says nothing whatsoever about a millennium, or one-thousand years, or a day, or The End of Time.

"To the contrary, it explicitly states that the Apostles’ rule will occur “in the Regeneration.”

And in the previous verse we see that the context of "in the Regeneration"
has to do with the Apostles when they asked the Lord,
"we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?"
and in this verse, "ye which have followed me"...
then, in the next verse, "And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for My Name's Sake", "shall receive an hundred fold:"

Mark adds, "now in this time"; and Luke likewise, "in this present time", in this World;
which may be understood of as Spiritual things,
the Love of God,
the Presence of Christ,
the Comforts of the Holy Ghost,
the Communion of saints,
and the Joys and Pleasures felt in the enjoyment of these things,
being an hundred times more and better to them, than all they have left or lost for Christ's sake, nor of the temporal things, so in Mark it seems to be explained, that such shall now receive an hundred fold in a similar way.

"Now, for the literal reading and Interpretation of Mathew 19:28; "in the Regeneration."

"This clause is so placed, that it may be read in connection with the preceding words "we have forsaken all, and followed thee", and be understood of the Disciples following Christ' "in the Regeneration"; meaning, not the Grace of Regeneration in Salvation, in which they could not be said, with propriety, to follow Christ; and one of them was never a Partaker of it:

"but the New State of things is being spoken of and has to do with the churches of God, which is intended and was Foretold, and is called the Time of Reformation, or Setting all things Right,
which began upon the Sealing Up of the Law, and the Prophets,
and the Ministry of John the Baptist, and of Christ;
who both, when they began to Preach, Declared, that this Time, which they call the Kingdom of Heaven, was at Hand, and was already Ushering in at that moment.

"Now the Twelve Apostles followed Christ here:
believed, and professed Him to be the Messiah;
they received, what the Jews called, His New Doctrine,
and Preached it to others;
they submitted to the New Ordinance of baptism,
and followed Christ, and attended Him wherever He went, working Miracles, Preaching the Gospel,
and reforming the minds and manners of men.

"Now this is the GENUINE NEW BIBLICAL DISPENSATION called 'the Regeneration', and which more manifestly took place after our Lord's Resurrection, and Ascension, and the Pouring Down of the Spirit;

Wherefore the phrase "in the Regeneration" is and may be connected with the following words,

"when the Son of man shall Sit in the Throne of His Glory in the Regeneration";

"not in the Resurrection of the dead, or at the Last Judgment, but in this New State of things, which now began to appear with another face: for the Apostles having a New Commission to Preach the Gospel to all the World; and being Endued with Power from on High for such Service, in a short time went every where Preaching the Word, with great success.

"Gentiles were converted, as well as Jews,
and both brought into a Gospel church state, by the Lord's New Ordinance in His churches of baptism;
the ceremonies of the Old Law being Abolished, were disused;
and again the Ordinances of baptism, and the Lord's Supper, where practised everywhere;

("In the Jews Religion Old Things Passed Away, and in Jesus Religion All Things became New:
agreeably to this the Syriac version renders the phrase, "in the New World"; and so the Persic.

"The Arabic reads it, "in the generation", or "age to come"; which the Jews so often call the World, or Age to Come, the Kingdom of the Messiah, or the Gospel Dispensation,)

"so "the Regeneration" is referring to the New Testament Church Age, which is our current Inner-Advental Period, between the Lord's First Coming and His Public Ministry and Ascension, until the Lord's Second Coming at the End of the World, when Jesus Will Separate the sheep from the goats and Create the New Heaven and New Earth.

"When the Son of man shall Sit in the Throne of His Glory", or Glorious Throne; as He did when He Ascended into Heaven, after His Earthly Ministry (Revelation 4) and Sat Down at the Right Hand of God; and was then Exalted as a Prince, and Made, or Declared to be Lord and Christ; and was Crowned in Human Nature, with Honor, and Glory, and Angels, Principalities, and Powers, made subject to Him:

"ye also shall sit upon Twelve Thrones:" for though Judas fell from his Apostleship, yet Matthias was chosen in his place, and took his position, and made up the number twelve; which is a Metaphorical Phrase, setting forth the Honour, Dignity, and Authority of their office and ministry, by which they should be

"Judging the Twelve Tribes of Israel"; Doctrinally and Practically;
by charging the Jews with the sin of crucifying Christ,
Condemning the Jews for their unbelief, and rejection of Jesus,
denouncing the Wrath of God, and the heaviest judgments that should fall upon them, as a Nation, for their sin;
and by turning from the Jews to the Gentiles, under which judgment they continue to this day."

Adapted from: Matthew 19 Gill's Exposition

for even as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive, and each in his proper order, (1) a first-fruit Christ, (2) afterwards those who are the Christ's, in his presence, 1 Cor 15:22,23

If made alive out of the dead above is not regeneration then please tell me exactly what it is? That is a question. Another question. Does 2 follow 1 in the above scripture? Does 2 follow 1 in regeneration and does 2 take place immediately before Christ sits on the throne of his glory and will the twelve sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel?

Help verses.
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: Matt 25:32
When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. Col 3:4