Why do people think that Baptists came from AnaBaptists?

[Particular]

Reconcile these three passages.

Romans 5:1-2 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

James 2:18,22-24 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

 

[Mikey]

Yep, nothing you posted included scripture that states we are justified only by faith. In fact the idea is actually ANTI-scriptural:

24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. Ja 2



What kind of blinders does it take for you to ignore plain statements such as these?:

Christ - "the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment"

Paul - "who will render to every man according to his works: to them that by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and incorruption, eternal life"

Peter - "he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is acceptable to him"

James - "by works a man is justified, and not only by faith"

I am not ignoring the statements but understanding. Works is indeed an important aspect of the believers life. We are called to obedience, obedience to the commandments of God.

However it is not about justification. Ephesians 2:8-9 states: "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."It is not our works that justify, but faith. following on in verse 10 explains what role our works play in our lives "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." We are saved for good works, not by good works.

James 2:17-18. James is writing against an arguement that one can have faith but not live a life of good works/obedience. James response: "So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead". Thus have the true faith will lead to good works, thus without good works that faith is dead or in other words not genuine.
"But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works" Works is the outworking of the faith. Nowhere does this passage teach that works are neccessary

Romans 3:27-28 "Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." If works plays a role in our justification then how can this statement above be true. Surely i can boast justification for it came about by my works.

Acts 16:30-31 "Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” No mention of works.

Question for you @Mikey , have you 'fulfilled the law'? Are you a 'doer of the law'?

13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified: Ro 2

In Christ yes.

 

[Mikey]

And your crying out against nonsense is even more nonsense by your logical standards.

You do not have to believe or accept what the Bible records about John the Baptist. If your idea of a baptist does not inlude repentance of sin, and obedience of baptism, then is your Baptist correct in your eyes only?

Seems you are kicking against the pricks, like Paul was, when the Lord said, "Work for me, instead of against me."

How do i not accept what scripture writes about John the Baptist? Where did i say i do not includethose things? is that your definition of what a Bapist is "repentance of sin, and obedience of baptism" nothing else?

Why dont you explain and show how Baptists have existed throughout history, and originate with John the Baptist.

 

[MartyF]

This link gives a good comparison

Here. Read this.

The church in the Bakehouse: John Smyth's English Anabaptist congregation at Amsterdam, 1609-1660. - Free Online Library

 

[kyredneck]

However it is not about justification.

???!!!

Works is how we're all going to be judged on that day! Every passage concerning the judgement is about works, deeds, doing, etc., with absolutely no mention of faith, ever, let alone your made up 'faith alone'. Works is the definer between the JUST and the UNJUST"

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice,
29 and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment. Jn 5

15 having hope toward God, which these also themselves look for, that there shall be a resurrection both of the just and unjust. Acts 24

In Christ yes.

No, in your Christian life, or better be:

"...he that loveth his neighbor hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: love therefore is the fulfilment of the law." Ro 13:8-10

12 All things therefore whatsoever ye would that men should do unto you, even so do ye also unto them: for this is the law and the prophets. Mt 7

 

[timtofly]

How do i not accept what scripture writes about John the Baptist? Where did i say i do not includethose things? is that your definition of what a Bapist is "repentance of sin, and obedience of baptism" nothing else?

Why dont you explain and show how Baptists have existed throughout history, and originate with John the Baptist.

No, I said John had repentance before baptism.

I did not say the Baptist originated any where. Why do you need a history for the Baptist anyway? Are you saying no one baptized until the Anabaptist? I am not against searching for years to prove to you the history of baptism, if you are willing to give me names of every church leader who did not baptize.

 

[tyndale1946]

???!!!

Works is how we're all going to be judged on that day! Every passage concerning the judgement is about works, deeds, doing, etc., with absolutely no mention of faith, ever, let alone your made up 'faith alone'. Works is the definer between the JUST and the UNJUST"

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice,
29 and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment. Jn 5

15 having hope toward God, which these also themselves look for, that there shall be a resurrection both of the just and unjust. Acts 24



No, in your Christian life, or better be:

"...he that loveth his neighbor hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: love therefore is the fulfilment of the law." Ro 13:8-10

12 All things therefore whatsoever ye would that men should do unto you, even so do ye also unto them: for this is the law and the prophets. Mt 7

Amen!... Sheep and goats

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Now I am not concerned with the goats... A goat will never be a sheep and a sheep will never be a goat but I do have questions on the sheep

Why did the Shepherd know the sheep but the sheep didn't know the Shepherd?

How could the Shepherd call them righteous if they didn't know him?... Or did they?

What did the sheep show the Shepherd that the goats did not that made them fit for eternal life?... Brother Glen

 

[timtofly]

???!!!

Works is how we're all going to be judged on that day! Every passage concerning the judgement is about works, deeds, doing, etc., with absolutely no mention of faith, ever, let alone your made up 'faith alone'. Works is the definer between the JUST and the UNJUST"

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice,
29 and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment. Jn 5

15 having hope toward God, which these also themselves look for, that there shall be a resurrection both of the just and unjust. Acts 24
No, in your Christian life, or better be:

"...he that loveth his neighbor hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: love therefore is the fulfilment of the law." Ro 13:8-10

12 All things therefore whatsoever ye would that men should do unto you, even so do ye also unto them: for this is the law and the prophets. Mt 7

Work is punishment. God gives eternal life based on how well we accepted God’s punishment? That is why works cannot save. Now you may say there are all kinds of works, but that does not explain why our works do anything. Work is also what we do in obedience to God, because we cannot escape work. Work is all we can do, since we cannot produce faith. We can not produce trust either. All we can do is trust God. When we obey God, the works we do will be rewarded with heavenly items we will then give back to God. It is like saving up for a future event that which we cannot give to God in this condition. But all we do is work for God in obedience, or work for Satan in disobedience. And nothing we do has anything to do with our eternal salvation. Only trusting God and God’s plan leads to salvation.

It is neither our own faith and our own works that overcomes this condition. The work is part of the punishment. The lack of faith comes from the separation from our own spirit.

It does not matter what Scripture you post about faith and works, because no one could know that Adam's punishment involved work and to what extent. This Revelation does not make the NT null and void, just like the cross and the first advent did not do away with the Law, but fulfilled the law. It is still God who determines who gets their name removed from the Lamb's book of life, and who God says to depart because God never knew them.

But being a part of the body of Christ is still submitting to the will of the Holy Spirit and accepting that the Atonement of Jesus Christ covered the payment God demands for the sin condition. Because only accepting being sealed by God instead of one's own works/punishment of God is God's plan for humanity. Only those in Christ will be glorified as a whole son of God with all 3 attributes of body, soul, and spirit. And this will not happen until the 5th and 6th seal of Revelation 6.

There is only the 3rd and 4th seal to go. The complete harvest of souls will only last for 3.5 years. In April there was only 3 years left. After the church leaves, then works and the law will continue until the nation of Israel has been harvested. God has not revealed how the Nations are going to be judged.

 

[Mikey]

Amen!... Sheep and goats

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Now I am not concerned with the goats... A goat will never be a sheep and a sheep will never be a goat but I do have questions on the sheep

Why did the Shepherd know the sheep but the sheep didn't know the Shepherd?

How could the Shepherd call them righteous if they didn't know him?... Or did they?

What did the sheep show the Shepherd that the goats did not that made them fit for eternal life?... Brother Glen

So you too believe in works justification?

 

[kyredneck]

So you too believe in works justification?

He's like me, he doesn't fall for your made up 'faith alone'.

 

[kyredneck]

Work is punishment.

No, good works come as natural to His children as water to ducks. The heart change that writes the 'golden rule' on the hearts of His redeemed is also the source of their faith in Christ.

13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves;
15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); Ro 2

12 So then, my beloved, even as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
13 for it is God who worketh in you both to will and to work, for his good pleasure. Phil 2

 

[Mikey]

He's like me, he doesn't fall for your made up 'faith alone'.

Nothing made up. It is a succinct explaination of the biblical truth of the gospel. If you believe that our works are needed for our justification, then it must be believed works of Christ alone is not enough to justify (for our works are needed). Again we are made new to do good works, not that we are made new through good works. Works is an extremely important aspect of the Christian life, but they do not justify.

 

[Mikey]

Work is punishment. .

How is works punishment? We are justified so to do good works.

 

[timtofly]

No, good works come as natural to His children as water to ducks. The heart change that writes the 'golden rule' on the hearts of His redeemed is also the source of their faith in Christ.

13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves;
15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); Ro 2

12 So then, my beloved, even as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
13 for it is God who worketh in you both to will and to work, for his good pleasure. Phil 2

The cross did not remove works. The Cross placed all humanity into the Lamb's book of life. God said that works go on, but if you think works saves, you will be dead wrong, and removed from the Lamb's book of life.

So nothing you can do will add your name to the status of elect, nothing, no work, nothing. One had to have faith their name is written down in the Lamb's book of life. To be like Christ one must repent and be obedient to God. Not for salvation, but that God can work through us to bring all to the knowledge of the Gospel.

God's works of fruit declares we are God’s elect. We are not God’s elect because of our own works.

Our works are God’s punishment on mankind. The works that God does in us, and through us belong to God. They are God’s works, and we will give them back to God as rewards in heaven.

 

[kyredneck]

Nothing made up. It is a succinct explaination of the biblical truth of the gospel.

No it's not, it's ADDING to the gospel. It's going AGAINST the Bible. You are told explicitly that justification is NOT by faith alone, yet you insist that justification is by faith alone.

 

[kyredneck]

The cross did not remove works.

You know, you and Mikey are big on your own explanations and seriously short on scripture. I'm done here. Duty calls me elsewhere.

 

[timtofly]

You know, you and Mikey are big on your own explanations and seriously short on scripture. I'm done here. Duty calls me elsewhere.

Well you would have either put the proper Scripture here eventually, or still denied any scriptures I used. Titus 3:3-7

3 For we ourselves also were in times past unwise, disobedient, deceived, serving the lusts and divers pleasures, living in maliciousness and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

4 But when that bountifulness and that love of God our Savior toward man appeared,

5 Not by the works of righteousness, which we had done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of the new birth, and the renewing of the holy Ghost,

6 Which he shed on us abundantly, through Jesus Christ our Savior,

7 That we, being justified by his grace, should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

 

[Alan Gross]

There is history, as well as, Biblical proof of the continued existence of The Lord's churches throughout the World, in their original Divinely Instituted, corporate state, since Jesus Founded His Church, until this present day.

Here is a little History: 8.5.2a The Baptist History Notebook Chapter 2: JESUS ESTABLISHES HIS CHURCHES. Satan Establishes his Counterfeit “Church” by Changing Jesus’ Church Government.

...
The question of why do ________?

... needs to be allow latitude to define something specific.

Example: "Baptists" who have adopted the name "Baptist", but who do not hold to The Lord's Doctrines He Taught regarding what He considers "a church assembly of congregated believers Worshiping HIM", are warning of having their candlestick removed.

The second example would be those children of God CALLED-OUT, to ASSEMBLE, and not forsake assembling,.... Get It?

.... There are 6,7,8, distinguishing characteristics of The Lord's churches Taught in The Bible.

Those who find them worth their life to defend and those who kill them over their Bible Beliefs are two different groups.

Both may be called, "Baptist", today.

The Lord's churches with those Bible Doctrines of church organization and practice have DONE GOD'S BUSINESS, SINCE JESUS WAS HERE.

 

[timtofly]

The second example would be those children of God CALLED-OUT, to ASSEMBLE, and not forsake assembling,.... Get It?

No.

You did define ________. You gave definitions, but did not state the name of the groups you were defining.

 

[37818]

. . . "a church assembly of congregated believers Worshiping HIM", are warning of having their candlestick removed.

Not "their" but a church from an individual, "will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. . . ." -- Revelation 2:5.