Why Does Satan Blind Those Born Already Blind?

[Rockson]

The thing to keep in mind is that Satan does not direct cause them to get and stay lost, as that is still their own desire and will, he just comes along to complete the hardening process.

I could even agree with some of that BUT....if man is absolutely and totally depraved in the sense that he can't make a decision for God and he'd need irresistible grace anyway to be saved....then why would Satan even bother to harden them further? Doesn't it ring out clear? If he doesn't attack them and seek to get the word out of their hearts then they can be saved.

 

[Yeshua1]

I could even agree with some of that BUT....if man is absolutely and totally depraved in the sense that he can't make a decision for God and he'd need irresistible grace anyway to be saved....then why would Satan even bother to harden them further? Doesn't it ring out clear? If he doesn't attack them and seek to get the word out of their hearts then they can be saved.

Satan can do nothing to prevent the elect of God to be getting saved by God, and that is great news!

 

[atpollard]

When he came to his senses, he said, 'How many of my father's hired servants have food to spare, and here I am starving to death!

We are discussing dead here. He was not dead as in a corps yet his father declared him dead. His relationship with broken and the result was as if he was dead. The Jews understood this example well. We are no less or no more dead when are lost. The young man was capable of realizing his plight and making the decision when he came to his senses.

If you really believe that the spiritual application of the Parable of the Prodigal Son is that the Lost choose to save themselves by coming to their senses under their own power and returning to God ... who am I to burst your bubble with the truth.

God Bless you and keep you (or may you bless and keep yourself) ... whichever you prefer.

 

[Yeshua1]

If you really believe that the spiritual application of the Parable of the Prodigal Son is that the Lost choose to save themselves by coming to their senses under their own power and returning to God ... who am I to burst your bubble with the truth.

God Bless you and keep you (or may you bless and keep yourself) ... whichever you prefer.

He was always a son of the Father, he has just forgotten what that meant!

 

[Revmitchell]

If you really believe that the spiritual application of the Parable of the Prodigal Son is that the Lost choose to save themselves by coming to their senses under their own power and returning to God ... who am I to burst your bubble with the truth.

God Bless you and keep you (or may you bless and keep yourself) ... whichever you prefer.

Such is the arrogance of Particulars.

 

[Rockson]

Satan can do nothing to prevent the elect of God to be getting saved by God, and that is great news!

Well keep in mind when I refer to the "elect" here I'm referring to it for how you define it not I. So you say that's great news for the elect? (how you define them) So can I take it then that's horrible news for those not so privileged ? They don't have no feelings? They don't want to be loved? They don't have tears which flow the same as yours? What if you got to the end of your days and sadly discovered you weren't one of the elect? Would you still consider it great news? Would you stand by seeing those marching in the Heaven and offer your congratulations and say don't worry about me. I wasn't given a chance but that's ok, it's all good?

 

[Rockson]

He was always a son of the Father, he has just forgotten what that meant!

But the Father said he was lost. Plain and simple. He didn't say "Well he's tied to a string to us like a yo yo and will come back to us eventually." The Father's heart was truly grieved and wouldn't have said he was lost if he wasn't.

 

[Yeshua1]

Well keep in mind when I refer to the "elect" here I'm referring to it for how you define it not I. So you say that's great news for the elect? (how you define them) So can I take it then that's horrible news for those not so privileged ? They don't have no feelings? They don't want to be loved? They don't have tears which flow the same as yours? What if you got to the end of your days and sadly discovered you weren't one of the elect? Would you still consider it great news? Would you stand by seeing those marching in the Heaven and offer your congratulations and say don't worry about me. I wasn't given a chance but that's ok, it's all good?

The truth is that the lost will not be having the problems you laid at here, as when presented by God at the GWT why they are forever lost, they will see all things were done exactly as required!

 

[Yeshua1]

But the Father said he was lost. Plain and simple. He didn't say "Well he's tied to a string to us like a yo yo and will come back to us eventually." The Father's heart was truly grieved and wouldn't have said he was lost if he wasn't.

He was lost in the sense was not going to Church, but never quit being a Christian!

 

[Revmitchell]

He was lost in the sense was not going to Church, but never quit being a Christian!

No sir,, he was lost. Period. I know your theology requires you to abandon reason on this subject but you need to really consider your words here.

 

[Yeshua1]

No sir,, he was lost. Period. I know your theology requires you to abandon reason on this subject but you need to really consider your words here.

He was one called a son in the very beginning, so was saved, and the point is not that he was saved/lost/saved again .

 

[atpollard]

But your description of man before and after the fall includes an awareness of God, and afterward even of his sin and what he has lost spiritually.

There is no indication that men are ignorant of the God they fear and reject.

• [Rom 1:18-21 NASB] 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
• [John 3:19-20 NASB] 19 "This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 "For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.

Rather, scripture claims that God must be worshiped in "spirit and truth", but there is no truth in the children of the devil so they do not believe the truth, and they go further to actually suppress the truth and exchange truth for a lie. Judgement awaits all who did not believe the truth.

• [Jhn 4:23-24 NASB] 23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers. 24 "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."
• [Jhn 8:44-46 NASB] 44 "You are of [your] father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own [nature,] for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 "But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 "Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me?
• [Rom 1:18, 25 NASB] 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, ... 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
• [2Th 2:12 NASB] 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

But the 'natural man' simply cannot understand the spiritual things of God ... they are foolishness to him. So he is SPIRITUALLY dead.

• [1Co 2:14 NASB] 14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
• [Eph 2:1-3 NASB] 1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
• [Jhn 6:41-44 NASB] 41 Therefore the Jews were grumbling about Him, because He said, "I am the bread that came down out of heaven." 42 They were saying, "Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does He now say, 'I have come down out of heaven'?" 43 Jesus answered and said to them, "Do not grumble among yourselves. 44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
• [Jhn 10:24-26 NASB] 24 The Jews then gathered around Him, and were saying to Him, "How long will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly." 25 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father's name, these testify of Me. 26 "But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.

Only those that GOD CHOOSES gain "eyes that see" and "ears that hear".

• [Eph 2:4-10 NASB] 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
• [Rom 8:28-30 NASB] 28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to [His] purpose. 29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined [to become] conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
• [Rom 9:10-18 NASB] 10 And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived [twins] by one man, our father Isaac; 11 for though [the twins] were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God's purpose according to [His] choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, 12 it was said to her, "THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER." 13 Just as it is written, "JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED." 14 What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! 15 For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION." 16 So then it [does] not [depend] on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH." 18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.

 

[Rockson]

He was lost in the sense was not going to Church, but never quit being a Christian!

Lost because he wasn't going to church? Well we know "the church " wasn't even established at the time Jesus said this but you know....even if it was are you saying because one isn't fellow shipping with a gathering of believers that they're absolutely lost if they're not?

 

[Dave G]

We are discussing dead here. He was not dead as in a corps yet his father declared him dead. His relationship with broken and the result was as if he was dead. The Jews understood this example well. We are no less or no more dead when are lost. The young man was capable of realizing his plight and making the decision when he came to his senses.

Mark ( may I use your given name? ),

There's a big difference between how God's word describes all men spiritually ( Romans 1:18-32, 3:10-17 John 3:19-20 ), in their "default condition", and His children who are like the Prodigal Son, whom He loves and welcomes them with open arms.

Parables conceal truths, while other Scriptures declare it in no uncertain terms...for those who have "ears to hear". I'm not sure why you cannot see this, but it's true.

The Prodigal son is describing God the Father's attitude towards His children being welcomed back into the house, even after making a complete mess of things...while outside of parables, which are "code" to those who don't understand them, Scripture declares the very same things in the epistles.

No sir,, he was lost. Period. I know your theology requires you to abandon reason on this subject but you need to really consider your words here.

As believers, we are not to use human reasoning ( which is not to be trusted ) when we approach God's word, sir:

" Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths." ( Proverbs 3:5 )

We approach it in faith, knowing that what He says is Truth, and we are to then let it change our way of thinking.


God bless you sir.

 

[Dave G]

To reply to something else that has been said in this thread, Scripture plainly teaches that spiritually dead means "no desire towards God and His ways at all."

Also, part of why men are said to have total inability, is because of two things, not one:

1) All men hate God and His Son, before God changes their hearts. They are hopelessly in love with sin, and absolutely refuse to repent of it.
2) Satan blinds everyone who is not elect to the truth of the Gospel.

" But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. " ( 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 )

Since you've believed the Gospel, then praise God for making you a seat at the table and keeping Satan from blinding you to the truth of it. To me, it is clear evidence that you are not lost.

 

[Dave G]

Such is the arrogance of Particulars.

I think that in your anger over something you do not yet understand, that you are reading arrogance into it.
No "Calvinist" that I know of is truly arrogant.

Not one that realizes the enormity of what God has done for them, at any rate.

 

[Benjamin]

Satan can do nothing to prevent the elect of God to be getting saved by God, and that is great news!

Yeah, I’m sure Satan is as totally irrelevant as any of our responses are being they are predetermined to be irresistible anyway, and how could the Devil have the least bit of significance in the outcome or and why would the Predestinarian consider him any credible threat whether ‘pre-elected” or not whatsoever?

All things have already been determined from before time …so it’s all an illusion…including God’s judgment of the matter is really only merely based on His pre-staged events anyway which we have no control over and it is actually God that plays both sides of the chessboard in the game of life with His volition-less creatures, right?

 

[Dave G]

Yeah, I’m sure Satan is as totally irrelevant as any of our responses are being they are predetermined to be irresistible anyway, and how could the Devil have the least bit of significance in the outcome or and why would the Predestinarian consider him any credible threat whether ‘pre-elected” or not whatsoever?

All things have already been determined from before time …so it’s all an illusion…including God’s judgment of the matter is really only merely based on His pre-staged events anyway which we have no control over and it is actually God that plays both sides of the chessboard in the game of life with His volition-less creatures, right?

Where did you get the idea that everything is being "predetermined"?
Do you think that everyone who reads Scripture and gets "Sovereign Grace" out of it, is a "Hyper-Calvinist", who believes that God predetermines every action?

Perhaps Calvin did ( I haven't read anything from most traditional "Calvinists ), but I wouldn't know, only having read the chapter on "Predestination" in the "Institutes" after I already understood it from Scripture.

I don't follow John Calvin, I follow Jesus Christ and His words alone. I cannot speak for anyone else, not even the people in this thread who speak as I do.



May He bless you greatly, sir.

 

[Rockson]

The truth is that the lost will not be having the problems you laid at here, as when presented by God at the GWT why they are forever lost, they will see all things were done exactly as required!

They'd consider all things were done exactly as required? Are you kidding me? The very foundation of being civilized in any judicial system on the earth has in it the idea of that in order to be guilty or at least punished one has to have had culpability. That's linked as well to have being of a state of mind or not having a state of mind to have done something about the situation. That's why we don't send insane people to prison. Well if sinners aren't allowed the state of mind to have a choice that makes them legally not culpable. Forgive me but I think in your heart you know that's true but you're afraid to admit it.

 

[Aaron]

What I keep coming across, and what the OP addresses, is a Calvinistic insistence on a literal corpse. Perhaps you mean not all Calvinists believe that? Your description here is far different than what some others representing Calvinism are saying in this thread. Are you representing basic Calvinism?

I was only showing that the OP argued for the bondage of the will.