Jesus said that God was the god of the living, and were the souls of both moses and Elijah sleeping when they conversed with jesus?
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Why does the SDA see Ellen White as a prophetess?
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Jesus said that God was the god of the living, and were the souls of both moses and Elijah sleeping when they conversed with jesus?
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Elijah was translated directly to heaven - see 2Kings 2 -- he never died.
And Moses is the key subject of the Jude 7 reference to the "Assumption of Moses".
"God is not the God of the dead" is a quote from Christ in Matt 22 where Christ argues that the future resurrection is proven by the fact that God is not the God of the dead and so CAN't claim to be the God of Abraham after Abraham dies - unless Abraham be resurrected in the future. This is Christ's own "proof" of the future resurrection so it is "irrefutable".
Next.
in Christ,
Bob
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Mankind 250 years ago was still using horse and buggy as the fastest "technology" for getting from one place to another -- just as they were doing in the days of Noah. ALL of our technology has been created in that 250 year window. Passing knowledge on from generation to generation. Starting the next generation 'from zero' and bringing them up to speed then they have a few decades to improve on the old. Bit-by-bit. 60 to 75 years max of productive science advancement "tops" that each generation could contribute.
By contrast before the flood mankind lived not for75 years not for 250 years but for 900+ years - just ONE scientist, just ONE Einstein with vastly superior mental ability to start with and during that entire time. Yet they had many more than "ONE".
You do the math.
in Christ,
Bob
Some of these people are heretics, especially the first one in the list.
If you want to give an intelligent answer to the post, then answer the Scripture. Do without your silly list of names.
Here is the post again:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2217016&postcount=113
Shucks, OneB, why haven't you saved yourself all this trouble and consulted the SCRIPTURES instead?
Einstein said he could not forget God or leave Him out of the equation ... were those okes able to <<do the maths>> by themselves? Who were Noah's assistants and or predecessors?
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One Baptism
Active Member
I did, brother Gerhard, even as they all had. If you will please take the time to consider the voluminous materials they cited in defense of their position in the Reformation [&c], from the Scripture. They, as persons, are not my foundation [Scripture is], but they are merely the sweet part of harmony with my brothers gone before.
If you want to discuss that subject by Scripture, I will begin a new Thread, and study with you there also. Please be prayerfully prepared to do so though.
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One Baptism
Active Member
Tell you what brother DHK, you make a list of all in that full listing, you deem heretic, and I will exclude them, and simply discuss those you think are not heretic and where they cited from Scripture [including Wesley and Spurgeon].
I will also enter into the Scripture purely, apart from them, even as I had to before I knew those sources existed. I actually went looking for those sources long after my prayerfully studied conclusion was solid, by Scripture.
vooks
Active Member
You are not smart at all. Here is why, AMALGAMATION before and after the Flood is the same thing. So if preFlood was genetic engineering, post flood must have been genetic engineering. But we have extensive evidence of Noah's time, genetic engineering is more foreign to that period than Whatsapp to Philip the Evangelist
Next, look at Noah, he just discovered fermentation right after the flood. He must have been exposed to this vast knowledge before. Note too the ark, a basic boat. Shows you how much knowledgeable they were back then
This is the dumbest apology I have ever heard of amalgamation. Keep hallucinating to prop your godess.
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BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by vooks
Bob, do you believe genetic engineering was practiced by pre-Flood people, and was somewhat lost for thousands of years only to be rediscovered in 20th century?
Is amalgamation genetic engineering?
1. there are MORE species of animal today than could have fit on the ark a result of isolation and also mixing - irrefutable - product of some form of amalgamation "mixing" within the animal kingdom.
2. There are more RACES of men today then got off the ark - a product of mixing within the human species between races.
3. None of this is said to mar the image of God after the flood.
4. None of this is said to result in confused races of men.
irrefutable.
Your question about GMO - genetic engineering before the flood, intelligence etc was addressed.
There would have been mixing before and after the flood - between animals and also between races of men - but there was also GMO before the flood that 'marred the image of God' and as Genesis 6 says "all flesh had become corrupt" - not said after the flood.
Just stating the obvious. Not using "Vooks" as my text.
Nothing in the Bible said "Noah first discovered the technology of making wine after the flood" for all we know they had it before the flood as well.
We do not have an exhaustive audit of those first 1500 years before the flood - as we all know.
For example in Genesis 6 we are told about clean vs unclean animal differences - but no text before the flood tells us how they knew to distinguish them -- only Lev 11 tells us.
WE do not have an exhaustive audit of every word or every invention before the flood -- only that they managed to "corrupt flesh" on the planet. Gen 6.
in Christ,
Bob
vooks
Active Member
Like every other Adventist, either you are obtuse or dumb
1. What is AMALGAMATION?
2. Was there AMALGAMATION before the flood?
3. Was there AMALGAMATION after the flood?
4. What was the effect/result of AMALGAMATION?
My authority is the Word of God. Apparently yours is not.
You authority is Ellen G. White?
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
You can be sure of one thing in the false accusation above - the false accuser will provide NO DATE that Ellen White predicted for Christ Second coming claiming that some divine dream or vision informed her that Christ would come on such-and-such a date.
Such is the nature of false accusations. Yet the author of such will not be embarrassed by this exposure in the least.
I think this has already been pointed out - but the claims above that these statements in the 1880's and 1850's are "PREDICTING" an event in 1843 and 1844 -- is utter nonsense. One can not "PREDICT" an event in the past!!
Ellen White's writings BEGIN with statements about the great dissappointment and how the 2nd coming predictions of the Millerites had failed. That is the START of her claimed work as a prophet in the 1840's after the 1884 failed event.
What sort of nonsense then is this odd accusation supposed "proof" that she PREDICTED the second coming years AFTER the date that she said it failed to happen in?
Does anyone take that seriously??? OR is it "any ol excuse will do" ... again?
Here are two quotes that are a special case
In the first 1847 statement she speaks of the FUTURE - not the past and gives no date.
In the second 1847 example she claims a vision that tells everyone they are about to be disappointed if they think that Christ will come in1845. It is NOT a vision claiming that Christ WILL come in 1845 rather the opposite!!
Why would anyone publish this as proof of a failed prediction (or are you Robert claiming that Christ DID come in 1845???)
present serious evidence please.
in Christ,
Bob
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BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Two examples that deserve consideration though they predict "no date" they do indicate "soon return" -- but with no date given.
"WE who ARE ALIVE and remain" 1Thess 4 -
The question is what is simply the 1Thess 4 type "soon return" and what is Conditional Prophecy -- and what is failed prophecy.
Conditional Prophecy -
[FONT="]Jeremiah 18[/FONT]
[FONT="]NKJV[/FONT]
[FONT="]7 [/FONT][FONT="]The instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, to pull down[/FONT][FONT="], and to destroy it, 8 if that nation against whom I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I thought to bring upon it. [/FONT]
[FONT="]9 [/FONT][FONT="]And the instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it, 10 if it does evil in My sight so that it does not obey My voice, then I will relent concerning the good with which I said I would benefit it.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]NASB[/FONT]
[FONT="]7 [/FONT][FONT="]At one moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to uproot, to pull down, or to destroy it;[/FONT][FONT="] 8 if that nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent[/FONT][FONT="] concerning the calamity I planned to bring on it.[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]9 [/FONT][FONT="]Or at another moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to build up or to plant it;[/FONT][FONT="] 10 if it does evil in My sight by not obeying My voice, then I will think better of the good[/FONT][FONT="] with which I had promised to bless it.[/FONT]
Example:
[FONT="]Then he cried out and said, “Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!”[/FONT]
Jonah 3:3
Not the message: "This is just conditional you have 40 days UNLESS you repent and then in that case...never mind".
==============================
MOSES
Ex 3
16 Go and gather the elders of Israel together, and say to them, ‘The Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, appeared to me, saying, “I have surely visited you and seen what is done to you in Egypt; 17 and I have said I will bring you up out of the affliction of Egypt to the land of the Canaanites and the Hittites and the Amorites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, to a land flowing with milk and honey.”’ 18 Then they will heed your voice; and you shall come, you and the elders of Israel, to the king of Egypt; and you shall say to him, ‘The Lord God of the Hebrews has met with us; and now, please, let us go three days’ journey into the wilderness, that we may sacrifice to the Lord our God.’
Exodus 4
29 Then Moses and Aaron went and gathered together all the elders of the children of Israel. 30 And Aaron spoke all the words which the Lord had spoken to Moses. Then he did the signs in the sight of the people. 31 So the people believed; and when they heard that the Lord had visited the children of Israel and that He had looked on their affliction, then they bowed their heads and worshiped.[FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
Does NOT say "you MIGHT go to the land of Canaan IF you are faithful otherwise we leave Egypt so we can all perish in the wilderness".
====================
[FONT="]It was not the will of God that the coming of Christ should be thus delayed. God did not design that His people, Israel, should wander forty years in the wilderness[/FONT][FONT="].[/FONT][FONT="] He promised to lead them directly to the land of Canaan, and establish them there a holy, healthy, happy people. But those to whom it was first preached, went not in "because of unbelief." Their hearts were filled with murmuring, rebellion, and hatred, and He could not fulfill His covenant with them. {Ev 696.1} 1883[/FONT]
"WE who ARE ALIVE and remain" 1Thess 4 -
The question is what is simply the 1Thess 4 type "soon return" and what is Conditional Prophecy -- and what is failed prophecy.
Conditional Prophecy -
[FONT="]Jeremiah 18[/FONT]
[FONT="]NKJV[/FONT]
[FONT="]7 [/FONT][FONT="]The instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, to pull down[/FONT][FONT="], and to destroy it, 8 if that nation against whom I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I thought to bring upon it. [/FONT]
[FONT="]9 [/FONT][FONT="]And the instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it, 10 if it does evil in My sight so that it does not obey My voice, then I will relent concerning the good with which I said I would benefit it.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]NASB[/FONT]
[FONT="]7 [/FONT][FONT="]At one moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to uproot, to pull down, or to destroy it;[/FONT][FONT="] 8 if that nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent[/FONT][FONT="] concerning the calamity I planned to bring on it.[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]9 [/FONT][FONT="]Or at another moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to build up or to plant it;[/FONT][FONT="] 10 if it does evil in My sight by not obeying My voice, then I will think better of the good[/FONT][FONT="] with which I had promised to bless it.[/FONT]
Example:
[FONT="]Then he cried out and said, “Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!”[/FONT]
Jonah 3:3
Not the message: "This is just conditional you have 40 days UNLESS you repent and then in that case...never mind".
==============================
MOSES
Ex 3
16 Go and gather the elders of Israel together, and say to them, ‘The Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, appeared to me, saying, “I have surely visited you and seen what is done to you in Egypt; 17 and I have said I will bring you up out of the affliction of Egypt to the land of the Canaanites and the Hittites and the Amorites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, to a land flowing with milk and honey.”’ 18 Then they will heed your voice; and you shall come, you and the elders of Israel, to the king of Egypt; and you shall say to him, ‘The Lord God of the Hebrews has met with us; and now, please, let us go three days’ journey into the wilderness, that we may sacrifice to the Lord our God.’
Exodus 4
29 Then Moses and Aaron went and gathered together all the elders of the children of Israel. 30 And Aaron spoke all the words which the Lord had spoken to Moses. Then he did the signs in the sight of the people. 31 So the people believed; and when they heard that the Lord had visited the children of Israel and that He had looked on their affliction, then they bowed their heads and worshiped.[FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
Does NOT say "you MIGHT go to the land of Canaan IF you are faithful otherwise we leave Egypt so we can all perish in the wilderness".
====================
[FONT="]It was not the will of God that the coming of Christ should be thus delayed. God did not design that His people, Israel, should wander forty years in the wilderness[/FONT][FONT="].[/FONT][FONT="] He promised to lead them directly to the land of Canaan, and establish them there a holy, healthy, happy people. But those to whom it was first preached, went not in "because of unbelief." Their hearts were filled with murmuring, rebellion, and hatred, and He could not fulfill His covenant with them. {Ev 696.1} 1883[/FONT]
One Baptism
Active Member
Good, brother DHK, since your authority is the Word of God and so also mine, we should be able to come into one mind about what itself teaches?
Brother, I have stated, and demonstrated from the beginning, that the Word of God is my foundation [if you think not, please cite where I have not so specifically].
Sister Ellen G White, is the messenger of the LORD, which includes the ministry of prophet[ess], chosen and sent by Him [Jesus]. Thus as Scripture says, "To the Law and to the Testimony..."
Therefore, we have 20:20 vision - 2 Chronicles 20:20
Simply to put on the table, Wesley and Spurgeon, and then when I call on such things, and reference them in other areas, Michael/Jesus or AntiChrist/Papacy, etc, and list many others, then a turn from all men, and then suddenly single out sister White, who also speaks to those matters, as many others also in similar fashion? Shall I cite in them both on those two matters?
If you would like to speak about Michael/Jesus from the Scripture alone, I am ready to do so, having prayerfully studied intensely on the matter, and understand where the Reformers and others like them, came to those conclusions drawn not from men, but from Scripture itself.
It says "prophecy has ceased." It ceased when revelation ceased. Revelation ceased with the book of Revelation was completed. There is a warning at the end of that book.
Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
That, being at the end of the book of Revelation, is also the close of the canon of Scripture seals the fate of any that should add to the entire canon of scripture. The canon of scripture is closed. Those who now or since then claim or have claimed to be a prophet are indeed false prophets.
Matthew says "the angel of the Lord coming down from heaven cast the stone away from the tomb and sat on it".
You people and your prophetess say Jesus is the angel of the Lord.
I rest my case.
What is worse, far worse, is that E.G. White wrote that the angel and the guards LOOKED INTO THE TOMB AND SAW JESUS RISE FROM THE DEAD.
Which is sheer blasphemy; but you still call her God's <<Testimony>>!!!
Unbelievable.
In my opinion Ellen White in this case is an incontrovertible case of obvious PLAGIARISM from Jakob Lorber.
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BobRyan
Well-Known Member
The book of John was written after the book of Revelation.
There is nothing in the book of Revelation that says no more prophecy.
There is nothing in the Bible that says "prophecy has ceased".
Eph 4 says prophecy continues until the 2nd coming.
Think about it. - Details matter.
in Christ,
Bob
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