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however we interprete that passage, cannot be as second chance, for that contridicts the bible !
You are right about the demons I don't think Jesus preached to the demons. They were already judged.
How is it you call it a second chance if they never heard of Jesus before?
In addition, the Bible says that the gospel was preached to those who are now dead, so that they can live according to God in regard to the spirit.
1 Peter 4:6 For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.
1 Peter 4:6 For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.Right, it does not make sense that Jesus would proclaim or preach anything to demons. At least Yeshua1 agrees that it could be the spirits of people too, however DHK will not admit to that.
This next scripture, I believe, tells us more about when Jesus went to preach to the spirits.
1 Peter 4:6 For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.
If someone never heard of Jesus, then how can they be judged for rejecting Jesus?
God is judge. I believe God considers things before deciding to put someone in the lake of fire forever, after the great white throne judgment.
those people the proclamation of jesus went too were thosealready preached to by the Spirit of Chrsit through prophet Noah!
1 Peter 4:6 For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.
What confuses you so much about this verse.
The gospel has been preached to those that are dead--Mary, the apostles, my father, mother, grandparents, the people to whom William Carey preached to, etc. They are all dead. Some went to heaven and some did not, but the gospel was preached to them.
The gospel was preached even to those who are now dead.
Look in a cemetery; the gospel has been preached to them that are there (when they were alive).
That is what the verse says. The gospel was preached to those who are now dead. And in the future they will be judged. It is not a difficult verse.
Stop adding things that are not in the Bible.
You are ignoring context. The context is the suffering and persecution of Christians. Many of their loved ones had died under the great persecution of the Roman government. Peter says don't be concerned about them. They have had the gospel preached to them. No matter what their decision was it is now final. They will, in the future, stand before God and be judged. There is nothing that they can do about it now.You are pretending that Peter is speaking backwards about the people who are in his audience alive. That is just illogical thinking. Peter says they will have to give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit. If these dead people learned of Jesus while they were alive, then why will their bodies be judged according to men? When a person is saved, they live WITH their body ACCORDING to God through the Spirit.
You are ignoring context.
The little story as made up and told by DHK. Why do you elaborate on the word of God?The context is the suffering and persecution of Christians. Many of their loved ones had died under the great persecution of the Roman government. Peter says don't be concerned about them. They have had the gospel preached to them. No matter what their decision was it is now final. They will, in the future, stand before God and be judged. There is nothing that they can do about it now.
This is where you start doing your slight twist. Scripture 5 is about Jesus being ready to judge the living and the dead.Consider the context. Here are the verses preceding verse, and including verse 6:
1 Peter 4:3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:
4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:
5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
In verse 3, he speaks of their former lives, and the wickedness that they themselves lived before they were saved. "our life...when we walked..."
In verse 4 their enemies think it is strange that they don't do the same things that they did before they were saved.
In verse 5. Their enemies will give account of themselves before God.
In verse 6 Their enemies had the gospel preached to them also.
Again, how are these dead “enemies,” as you have called them, going to live according to God in regard to the spirit? If they heard and understood about Jesus when they were alive and rejected him, then how can they now live according to God in the spirit?1 Peter 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.
8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.
9 Use hospitality one to another without grudging.
10 As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.
--In verse 7 the end is near, Jesus is coming soon.
In verse 8, Practice love, even to your enemies.
In verse 9 practice hospitality, even to your enemies.
In verse 10 Be good steward of the grace of God, to all people.
Thus verse 6 may not be speaking of their relatives, but rather about the unsaved who have heard the gospel, and they too will stand before God and receive just judgment. Either way they are people who have already died and will some day stand before God.
I have now given you the entire context verse by verse, so now you have no excuse.No, you are ignoring context.
Please don't refer to God's holy Scriptures as a "little story" that is "made up." That is quite irreverent, and makes you look like you believe the Bible is simply myth? Is that correct? I thought better of you.The little story as made up and told by DHK. Why do you elaborate on the word of God?
And this is what verse six says:This is where you start doing your slight twist. Scripture 5 is about Jesus being ready to judge the living and the dead.
Yes, the full context makes it clear, that it is specifically the enemies that are being spoken of, not God's elect.Lol…so you decided to change this to the enemies. In your previous argument, these were about those being saved.
Whether it is a believer or unbeliever, when a person NOW dies their spirits go to either heaven or hell, as the case may be. The resurrection has not yet taken place. The judgmenet is still in the future as the verse says.So, in scripture 6, how are these dead enemies going to live according to God in the spirit?
They will not live according to God if they have not trusted Christ.Again, how are these dead “enemies,” as you have called them, going to live according to God in regard to the spirit? If they heard and understood about Jesus when they were alive and rejected him, then how can they now live according to God in the spirit?
I have now given you the entire context verse by verse, so now you have no excuse.
Please don't refer to God's holy Scriptures as a "little story" that is "made up." That is quite irreverent, and makes you look like you believe the Bible is simply myth? Is that correct? I thought better of you.
And this is what verse six says:
1 Peter 4:6 For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.
1. The gospel was preached. Past tense.
2. They are now dead. present tense. presently dead.
3. They might be judged (as in the future).
There is no difficulty in this verse.
Yes, the full context makes it clear, that it is specifically the enemies that are being spoken of, not God's elect.
Whether it is a believer or unbeliever, when a person NOW dies their spirits go to either heaven or hell, as the case may be. The resurrection has not yet taken place. The judgmenet is still in the future as the verse says.
"The rich man lifted up his eyes being in torment and said: "father Abraham..."
It was a story. But all involved in that story did not have resurrected bodies. They were spirits that Jesus told us of, to give meaning to us, that we might understand the reality of hell.
They will not live according to God if they have not trusted Christ.
However in the future even the unsaved will face this one event where:
"Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Christ is Lord to the glory of the Father."
1 Peter 4:6 For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.
Both MacArthur and Barnes believe that because the gospel was preached some were saved. They will live in respect to the spirit with God, not eternally separated from God, like those who rejected him, those were the enemies of the children of God.
You changed your beliefs about this during our debate. You also bring up MacArthur and Barnes, but I am not sure what you are trying to say about their beliefs.
I gave my beliefs. I gave scripture and explained it, and even gave scripture that I believe goes along together with this topic. Jesus filled the whole universe. If the spirits of those who had died before Jesus do not get to hear about Jesus and the gospel, then how do you think Jesus filled the whole universe?
I will hold on to the good.
You will not change my beliefs with your confusing explanations.
problems is that DHK kept bringing up what the scriptures say and mean, while you keep posting some novel theology that no one else seems to have had "revelation" on!
I speak about what is in the Bible. You need to hide behind someone named Luther or Calvin.
Maybe you hide behind a nowadays teacher like Paul Washer or MacArthur who hides behind Luther or Calvin?
Actually, the teachers of the bible that I hide behind are yeshua and His Apostles!
I know and respect those you listed, but look to the ones I cited before anyone else!
You have not spoken the truth Moriah.That is strange; you teach the same false things as those I have mentioned.
You have not spoken the truth Moriah.
Nor can you give a viable and consistent explanation of all four passages of Scripture that we have been discussing.
1. 1Peter 4:6
2. 1Peter 3:18-20
3. 2Peter 2:4
4. Jude 1:6
Then give a coherent explanation of these Scriptures instead of just telling everyone else that they are wrong:I have spoken the truth.
Then give a coherent explanation of these Scriptures instead of just telling everyone else that they are wrong:
1. 1Peter 4:6
2. 1Peter 3:18-20
3. 2Peter 2:4
4. Jude 1:6
No, First I am not going to wade through 24 pages of inconsistent garbled ramblings that are often contradictory. You are not consistent. When I refute one post you just jump to another text. When I refute that you jump to another. You don't have any consistent answers. Therefore I have set the main texts before you. Answer them one by one. And since no one else has been entering into this conversation, but Yeshua, if you are not going to do this then I will just close the thread. If you are not willing to take the next step in an intelligent debate why go any further?Go back and study the posts already written.