Why follow the world honoring Easter & Christmas

[blackbird]

Here, rabbits tend to represent lunch. Or supper.

Right you are, rbell!!!!

While growing up in Louisiana----I absolutely LOVED fried Rabbit!!!!! My sister on the other hand----detested it!!! Absolutely HATED fried Rabbit!!!

One day recently-----My sister and her family came for a visit----I happened to have some Rabbit meat in the freezer------I fried it up---diced it up---and cooked it up in a big pot of Louisiana Jambayla!!!!! My sister thought it was Chicken!!!!!:laugh: :laugh:

 

[Bro. James]

Peter the Rabbit had floppy ears---

They also itched a lot.

Follow the "holy day" practices to their origins: Pontifex Maximus, etal,for the past 1600 years. These were pagan in origin, past, present. That which started in Rome was paganism with a Christian facade. It matters not how one reforms it--it is still pseudo.

Throwing out Julian Calendars and wedding rings would not be required to be consistent with worshipping God in Spirit and in Truth--they are not part of worship.

Most folks believe exactly what they want--regardless of the facts. Most of us have a religion which conforms to our lifestyle-instead of our lifestyle conforming to our religion.
True religion and undefiled is not for our enjoyment.


"Why do you call me Lord, and do not what I say?" Jesus to His disciples.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

[HankD]

Throwing out Julian Calendars and wedding rings would not be required to be consistent with worshipping God in Spirit and in Truth--they are not part of worship.

"Why do you call me Lord, and do not what I say?" Jesus to His disciples.

Selah,

Bro. James

Oh but I think it does matter Bro James.
On what day of the week do you worship?

Why honor false gods by naming our days after them and then advertising them on our church calendars?



HankD

 

[Bro. James]

The Lord's Day

There is scriptural evidence that the first assemblies assembled on the first day of the week. There is really no scripture that commands the frequency nor the day of the week. Some assemblies meet once a month--every fifth Sabboth might be acceptable for others.

When to meet, how often to meet, baptism and communion have been bones of contention in the religious world for nearly 2000 years--not among the elect. The Bride is kept undefiled.

What will stand at the Bema Seat is what really counts.

Jesus told the Jewish religious leaders they were worshipping in vain, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Many are called--few are chosen. The criteria for discipleship has not changed.
cf: I Cor. 3:1-15.

Nominal Christendom has not a clue.

Selah,

Bro. James

P.S. We have no "church" calendars--no crosses either.

 

[ituttut]

As someone who actually lives in a heathen culture, I'd like to give an alternate explanation. (I realize that America is rapidly becoming heathen, but believe me, it isn't to be compared with a truly heathen country like Japan, with only 1% professing Christian.)

Many churches in Japan try to offer an alternative celebration to the heathen Japanese celebrations of New Year's Day (when the first idol worship of the new year takes place) and the "Bon" Festival in August (when souls returning from Hell for a brief break are honored). That way believers can avoid the heathen practices and honor God. I see nothing wrong with that. In particular, weak Christians are given a way to avoid temptation, and that is a good thing.

Hello Brother John. I believe you and I may (in Christ) have one thing in common, and that is we have believed on our Lord Jesus Christ for our salvation.

I don't understand why an "alternative celebration" is needed. Aren't they wishing to do the same thing as the heathen Japanese do? Monkey see, Monkey do! This looks to be following the way of the world, and not His Word. We are to walk not by sight of those things we see in this sinful world, but by faith, which is in Him. He told me how to remember Him, and I have no plans to add to what He tells me.

I believe that Christmas and Easter were probably instituted in place of the heathen holidays, rather than as a continuation of them. I can't prove this historically--but then no one can prove it isn't true either. And it fits the data, unless you live in America with a church on every corner, Bibles in every bookstore and Christian programs on every TV and radio.

We continue to disagree. Continuation of the heathen holidays are today being practiced on the dates that the heathen demanded, and the churches today walk step in step with the heathen, for they accept that Jesus was born on the day that the heathen "god" was. We know this is error, but continue to accept what we have been told, not by scripture, but by an earthly church that is of works, and full of error. Is it God who told this church to celebrate Easter, or Christmas? We believe the Catholic church that we should embrace these Holy Catholic Holy Days, so why do we not also get us some holy beads, bells, and water? There is no way we can fully enter into these holy catholic days, unless we partake of the beads, bells, water, with the blessing of the Pope. We really need to translocate over to her (Catholic) beliefs to get the full effect of Christmas and Easter.

You point out the very reason, and the proof historically -- "Bibles in every bookstore and Christian programs on every TV and radio." Find Easter and Christmas in the Bible. How much more proof do we need?

 

[ituttut]

Thanks for the reply HankD, you always have some good input.

Well Ituttut, I mostly agree. It's whatever your faith allows. Paul said
"we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one".

Can't disagree with this

However I disagree that this matter has "nothing to do with us".

1 Corinthians 10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

True words. Taking in the above scripture, and this one we still must "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22. Abstain from all appearance of evil." I find paganism "evil" wherever we may find it.

However, if people's faith allows them the practice of celebrating the Lord's birth and resurrection by observing certain days then so be it.

Fully agree, but I believe they should be made aware of the origin of Christmas, and Easter, showing they have no foundation to stand on as they worship, accepting December 25 was the day God was born, or Easter was known or observed by the "kingdom church", or the Body Church. It is up to them what and when they worship. We will all answer to whom we listened and obeyed, while we lived.

May God bless you Ituttut.

Double that HankD.

 

[ituttut]

Not so, I now pastor a church that observed lent many yrs ago, like in the 40s and 50s.

As a matter of fact, when I came to this church a couple yrs ago, the older members 65-80 yr olds came to me and wanted to make sure that I would observe advent, and wanted me to reinstitute lent.

Since Advent never was stopped being observed, and since I was familiar with it from previous churches.. I enjoy observing advent.

This yr, we are keeping the palm leaves on Palm Sunday, drying them, and burning them to use for Ash Wednesday next yr.

We will again, after 50 some yrs observe lent again.

Of course it will have a Baptist spin on it.
I will probably preach a series of sermons on prayer and fasting.

Hi tinytime. I should have been more specific. From the 1930's I never frequented a Southern Baptist church that recognized Lent. Many today are doing that for, in my opinion, they wish to be put back under bondage as Paul tells us. We are of through faith, and not by faith. We are connected to Jesus Christ by Israel, but our umbilical cord was not cut until after Damascus Road. We are not of this earth of four hundred years, or forty days and forty nights, but of the heavenlies, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4. According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6. To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8. Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9. Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself", Ephesians 1:3-9.

Do we know what the mystery is, and when it became known? Was it in Old Testament times while Jesus lived and plainly told us He did not come for we dogs, the Gentiles?

I found an interesting site of a Ken Collins, of the Christian church (Disciples of Christ), which is located at http://www.kencollins.com/question-41.htm, which offers more than what I post here.

In Bold is my input for consideration.

"Lent began in the apostolic era and was universal in the ancient church." Prove it.

"For this reason, Lent is observed by the various Presbyterian, Methodist, Lutheran, and Anglican denominations, by Roman Catholics, and by Eastern Orthodox Churches." He knowingly omits the Baptist for it is true.

It is much easier to explain who stopped observing it and why." Here we go - hang on to your hats.

In the 16th century, many Calvinists and Anabaptists discarded all Christian holy days, on the theory that they were Roman innovations. That was their best information at the time, but today we know that they were wrong. In the late 19th century, ancient Christian documents came to light. The Didache from the first century, the Apostolic Constitutions from the third century, and the diaries of Egeria of the fourth century; all which give evidence of the Christian calendar and holy days. The Didache and the Apostolic Constitutions were written in the east, which denies it ever recognized the institution of the papacy. Egeria was a Spanish nun, but her writings also describe practices in the east. All of these documents came to light 300 years after it was too late for the groups who had already discarded Christian holy days."

Holy Moly now my eyes have been opened. We now have proof that the stupid Calvinists and Anabaptist had no idea of what the "Didache from the first century, the Apostolic Constitutions from the third century, and the diaries of Egeria of the fourth century; all which give evidence of the Christian calendar and holy days. The Didache and the Apostolic Constitutions were written in the east, which denies it ever recognized the institution of the papacy."

The ignorant Baptist only believed the Bible. And some of them still do not have enough sense to believe that men other than the Apostles, and those chosen by the Holy Spirit, must be listened to. These that were not chosen by the Holy Spirit can give us so much more insight into what He really meant to tell us.

 

[HankD]

Can't disagree with thisTrue words. Taking in the above scripture, and this one we still must "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22. Abstain from all appearance of evil." I find paganism "evil" wherever we may find it.Fully agree, but I believe they should be made aware of the origin of Christmas, and Easter, showing they have no foundation to stand on as they worship, accepting December 25 was the day God was born, or Easter was known or observed by the "kingdom church", or the Body Church. It is up to them what and when they worship. We will all answer to whom we listened and obeyed, while we lived.Double that HankD.

OK I'm trying to see both sides of this issue.

Personally I commemorate the birth of Christ around the Christmas season after all angels and the heavenly host celebrated His first birthay

But, I try to avoid as much as possible the commercial side of the holiday season.

As to the days of the week, do we print "Prayer Meeting - Wednesday" in our calendar or advertise the same on our outside Bulletin Board?

Doesn't this honor the false god Woden that we have a prayer meeting on Woden's Day even though we aren't fully aware of the historic facts behind the naming of the days?

To be consistent, don't we have an obligation to learn these things as well?

The real answer is to let each decide where to draw the line without passing judgement on what I believe are non-issue decisions (apart from the fact that some of these decisions are offensive to other Christians).

We can't please everyone:

James 3:2 For in many things we offend all ...​

So, maybe it's best in these cases just to not mention them, which seems to be alluded to in the second half of this verse:

...If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.​

Your brother
HankD​

 

[Joe]

Can't disagree with thisTrue words. Taking in the above scripture, and this one we still must "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22. Abstain from all appearance of evil." I find paganism "evil" wherever we may find it.Fully agree, but I believe they should be made aware of the origin of Christmas, and Easter, showing they have no foundation to stand on as they worship, accepting December 25 was the day God was born, or Easter was known or observed by the "kingdom church", or the Body Church. It is up to them what and when they worship. We will all answer to whom we listened and obeyed, while we lived.Double that HankD.

Sorry ituttut, I guess I forgot to get back to you.

I completely agree with what I bolded in your quote above (though it was to Hank, your post to me is similar). Imo, Jesus would not like his birthday misrepresented. From my viewpoint, the churches here are pretty good about educating people that Dec 25th is incorrect, and explaining the true meaning of Easter. Even my non-christian friends are aware of this. Blessings to you :saint:

 

[John of Japan]

Hello Brother John. I believe you and I may (in Christ) have one thing in common, and that is we have believed on our Lord Jesus Christ for our salvation.

I don't understand why an "alternative celebration" is needed. Aren't they wishing to do the same thing as the heathen Japanese do? Monkey see, Monkey do! This looks to be following the way of the world, and not His Word. We are to walk not by sight of those things we see in this sinful world, but by faith, which is in Him. He told me how to remember Him, and I have no plans to add to what He tells me.We continue to disagree.

Hello yourself, friend ituttut.

An alternate celebration is sometimes needed because Japanese new believers tend to have a hard time understanding what is wrong with idolatry. They also are very sensitive about looking bad in front of relatives by abandoning their cultural idolatry--the famed Asian "saving face." An alternate celebration protects Japanese believers from temptation, and we are taught by our Lord to pray, "Lead us not into temptation."

Continuation of the heathen holidays are today being practiced on the dates that the heathen demanded, and the churches today walk step in step with the heathen, for they accept that Jesus was born on the day that the heathen "god" was. We know this is error, but continue to accept what we have been told, not by scripture, but by an earthly church that is of works, and full of error. Is it God who told this church to celebrate Easter, or Christmas? We believe the Catholic church that we should embrace these Holy Catholic Holy Days, so why do we not also get us some holy beads, bells, and water? There is no way we can fully enter into these holy catholic days, unless we partake of the beads, bells, water, with the blessing of the Pope. We really need to translocate over to her (Catholic) beliefs to get the full effect of Christmas and Easter.

Christ told us, "You shall be my witnesses." I use Christmas and Easter as chances to proclaim Christ here in Japan. I give out Christmas tracts that give the Gospell, and every Christmas I have a standing invitation to freely proclaim Christ at the Christmas program of a non-Christian kindergarten. Do you actually think I should let such chances to proclaim Christ slip on by? I'd rather obey Christ and be His witness at such times.

You point out the very reason, and the proof historically -- "Bibles in every bookstore and Christian programs on every TV and radio." Find Easter and Christmas in the Bible. How much more proof do we need?

We do many things that the Bible does not advocate--but neither does it condemn. Where in the Bible does it say we must not celebrate the birth of Christ and the resurrection of Christ? Beware that you do not add to Scripture by saying what it does not say. I say we should take every chance to celebrate Christ and proclaim Him, as long as the Bible does not forbid it, and it is not unethical or immoral.

 

[ituttut]

How hard can this be?

"One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it."

On some issues the word of God is not clear, it is clear on this one. Why do we fight over it 3-4 times a year?

Let's look at it from another view in order to be very clear. The Holy Spirit is not deliberately ambiguous, but we can make it so.

Do some not observe the Sabbath day over all others? Do not some observe the first day of the week over all others. Paul says fine to observe such days. Paul also says we may "esteem" every day of the week alike.

In the context of this scripture Paul is not talking about One or Two days in a year. A day does not mean one date out of the year, but in a seven day time period.

 

[ituttut]

Agreed, if you don't want to celebrate lent, Christmas, etc in your church then more power to you. But, get off the high horse of judgment of other churches who do. As for me and my church we will do what we darn well please without undo influence from those who don't like Christmas trees, Easter eggs, and an Advent Wreath. Just because something may have pagan origins or Catholic origins doesn't necessarily make it pagan or Catholic in my home or my church.

Is it biblical, or what you want, just as you have indicated?

 

[ituttut]

itittut, Are you talking about the usage of rabbits and eggs that represented fertility? I understand that in ancient times, those were symbols of fertility used in the worship of false gods.

Hi abcgrad93. Yes for this was the beginning of what we now call Easter.

Nowadays, the eggs are used to represent a new beginning. I'm not sure about the rabbits.

It was the same back then for it is springtime, and the "god's" brought forth new life again, and the rabbits speak to continuous regeneration. I don't understand why we would want to include eggs and rabbits to join together on a pagan appointed Holy Day to worship our Lord Jesus Christ. How "religious" we have become bringing eggs and rabbits into our churches, not because we thought of these things to worship and honor Him, but because Constantine welcomed into the church the pagans, and their idol worship of "gods" giving us the dates we must use to tell when to have our Holy Days of each year.

Maybe they are just left over from the old pagan traditions. At any rate, Easter has come to mean Resurrection Day. It can't be considered a stumbling block because nobody uses that day to worship pagan fertility gods any more, at least no one I know of. Society has changed the word to mean something else. That's not a sin. Over the years many of our words have taken on different meanings.

But why do the "Easter Bunny", and the eggs continue?

Agree Society has changed, and Society has changed the church, but before Jesus, the "eggs and rabbits" were. I know much of what I present looks to be overkill for some, but we are to know who and what we worship. Easter is not a Christian name but of origin from the Chaldeans formed from Astarte, the "Queen of heaven". What have we to do with a "Queen of heaven"? She wants her Easter eggs, and rabbits, which we supply her at the time of year she wishes. These things are from the hands of man, for we can find no references while any Apostles lived or an early Christian church ever observing what was unknown to them. Even if they had ever heard of Christmas, or Easter, it would have been foreign to them and not brought into the Christian church.

I cannot find Easter, but I do find Pasch, or Passover, which is not Easter, of which the Jewish Kingdom church in Jerusalem faithfully kept. The Christian church did not keep the Passover, for we worship our risen Lord. If we truly wished to have a day out of the year to worship Him, it would be on the DATE He arose and came forth from the tomb. It is the same every year, the date being Nisan 18, our April. But we are told to "……worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh," Philippians 3:3

 

[ccrobinson]

In the context of this scripture Paul is not talking about One or Two days in a year. A day does not mean one date out of the year, but in a seven day time period.

Baloney. Do you really mean to say that day could mean something other than 1 x 24 hour period? You can't just change the definition of a word just so you can be right.

 

[tinytim]

Eggs can be used in a lot of ways to illustrate things from the Bible...

1) The Trinity
2) The ressurection... blow the inside of the egg out, paint it to make it look like a rock, .. and them break it open on Easter to show that nothing is on the inside... just like the tomb...
3) The Pharisees.. both old and modern day... Color it and make it look beautiful... then blow the inside out... then use it to show that people can look beautiful on the outside, but still be empty on the inside.

Children NEED visuals in order to learn... Why, most adults need visual aids to learn.... This is a way to use something physical to teach a heavenly truth.... HEY, where have I heard that before?....


OH, I KNOW, I KNOW.... JESUS..

He used a mustard seed to represent the kingdom.... or a pearl...
or a bird... or a flower... to represent God's provision...

Hmmm.. That Jesus must have known what He was doing all along!

And as for Lent, can anyone say group accountability?
When the church comes together to focus on God for the 40 days leading up to the crucifixion... There can be a special bond there.. A bond that should exist throughout the whole yr, but a lot of times it doesn't....

When we do it next year, I am going to work into Lent someway an accountablility factor...

 

[J.D.]

I have no idea why we follow the world in honoring Eostre and Christ-mass. Oh wait, I know, it's so we can win them to the "lord" so they'll come to church twice a year.

"Enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God." Deuteronomy 12:30-31​

 

[Sopranette]

Eggs can be used in a lot of ways to illustrate things from the Bible...

1) The Trinity
2) The ressurection... blow the inside of the egg out, paint it to make it look like a rock, .. and them break it open on Easter to show that nothing is on the inside... just like the tomb...
3) The Pharisees.. both old and modern day... Color it and make it look beautiful... then blow the inside out... then use it to show that people can look beautiful on the outside, but still be empty on the inside.

Children NEED visuals in order to learn... Why, most adults need visual aids to learn.... This is a way to use something physical to teach a heavenly truth.... HEY, where have I heard that before?....


OH, I KNOW, I KNOW.... JESUS..

Hey, those are really cute ideas, Tim! Thanks! I know my kids would love them.

love,

Sopranette

 

[rbell]

I have no idea why we follow the world in honoring Eostre and Christ-mass. Oh wait, I know, it's so we can win them to the "lord" so they'll come to church twice a year.

"Enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God." Deuteronomy 12:30-31​

You don't have to like or agree with other methods...but it's offensive for you to ridicule people who are sharing the Gospel with others. Remember...Paul was thankful that the Gospel was being preached.

And your accusing your brothers and sisters in Christ of idolatry is shameful.

 

[John of Japan]

I have no idea why we follow the world in honoring Eostre and Christ-mass. Oh wait, I know, it's so we can win them to the "lord" so they'll come to church twice a year.

"Enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God." Deuteronomy 12:30-31​

Why are you mocking the practice of using Christmas and Easter to witness for Jesus Christ our Lord (capital L)? And with your lower case "l" in Lord are you insinuating that those of us who witness for Christ on these days are somehow committing idolatry? You really need to rethink this post. To mock good people who try to win others to the Lord is not right.

 

[John of Japan]

I have no idea why we follow the world in honoring Eostre and Christ-mass. Oh wait, I know, it's so we can win them to the "lord" so they'll come to church twice a year.

"Enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God." Deuteronomy 12:30-31​

Here is what you said on your thread about Pink's view of Christmas in December of last year:

Contrary to the image I might have cast in my recent posts, I do participate, in a subdued manner, in the SECULAR activities of the "holidays". I enjoy a day off from work, and nice meal with the family, I send present to my children and they to me, and cards to my closest friends and relatives.

So let me get this straight. You think it's okay to participate in a limited way in the secular customs of Christmas, but you are willing to mock as idolators those of us who use the secular celebration of Christmas as an opportunity to preach Christ. Do I have that right?