Why God forbid the Jews to eat Pork.

[TorahKeeper]

Circumcision was instituted by God Himself, are you saying He created a false teaching????

You are treading on dangerous ground

 

[Petrel]

No, silly!

As I said before, the Law was instituted as a pointer towards Jesus. With Jesus, the Law was fulfilled. Since it is fulfilled, continuing to follow it would be pointless. This is the same thing that every passage I've quoted says. How do you respond to Hebrews if you think that the Law remains? It clearly says that it does not!

Here's another one:

Galatians 2:11-14

When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong. Before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.

When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, "You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?"

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by TorahKeeper:
Circumcision was instituted by God Himself, are you saying He created a false teaching????

No one said that. Circumcision was instituted by God Himself. That institution is no longer in effect.

Peter and Paul said that circumcision was not necessary. Are you saying they lied? You are treading on dangerous ground here.

 

[Petrel]

And here Paul gets so angry at those saying that circumcision is still required that he gets carried away and would no doubt be edited if he had posted on this board except for the fact that it's in the Bible.

Galatians 5:2-12

It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

You were running a good race. Who cut in on you and kept you from obeying the truth? That kind of persuasion does not come from the one who calls you. "A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough." I am confident in the Lord that you will take no other view. The one who is throwing you into confusion will pay the penalty, whoever he may be. Brothers, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished. As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!

 

[TorahKeeper]

Why cant you see that Paul was speaking of the false teaching of obedience produces salvation. Why do you so desier to eliminate the wordws of God Himself?

Curious

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by TorahKeeper:
Why cant you see that Paul was speaking of the false teaching of obedience produces salvation.

Because he wasn't. Peter and Paul expressly saud that said that circumcision was not necessary.

You say they lied. I can believe you, or scripture. I'll believe scripture.

 

[Petrel]

Paul taught that circumcision was placing oneself back under the Law and away from grace. He elsewhere says that circumcision is irrelevant to us now. If you want to have your sons circumcised and aren't doing it as a means of getting points with God, go ahead, but the minute you start saying that it is a commandment that all males be circumcised, that's when you fall away from grace.

 

[TorahKeeper]

I never said they lied. you are not able to discern what they are teaching. You really need some help

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by TorahKeeper:
I never said they lied. you are not able to discern what they are teaching. You really need some help

What they are teaching is ABUNDANTLY CLEAR. They are teaching that CIRCUMCISION IS NO LONGER NECESSARY. Period, end of story. They weren't talking about just grace, they weren't talking about just salvation. They were saying that CIRCUMCISION IS NO LONGER NECESSARY. Period.

You're saying that circumcision is still in effect for Christians today. So, yes, you are calling Peter and Paul liars.

 

[Petrel]

Galatians 6:12-16

Those who want to make a good impression outwardly are trying to compel you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ. Not even those who are circumcised obey the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your flesh. May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation. Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule, even to the Israel of God.

 

[TorahKeeper]

Deny it all you wish, they were speaking of false doctrines.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by TorahKeeper:
Deny it all you wish, they were speaking of false doctrines.

Scripture doesn't say that. Not at all. In scripture, Peter and Paul areexpressly and clearly saying the circumcision is no longer required.

For you say they're saying something else is the result of you adding to scripture.

 

[Petrel]

If circumcision is still required for all of God's people, why did Paul order Titus to disobey God and not be circumcised? Why does the New Testament never anywhere order us to be circumcised? Why does Paul say repeatedly that circumcision means nothing? Why did Peter live like a Gentile, without following the Law?

 

[TorahKeeper]

Why do you need Paul to confirm something God told us to do already? Sounds like you are trusting man more than God. The passage with Titus dealt with false doctrines. Still not a difficult concept, unless you desire to be disobedient.

 

[Petrel]

Paul expressly said that Titus would not be circumcised. If circumcision was required and the only crime was having the wrong motivation for it, Paul would have told Titus to be circumcised but told us expressly that circumcision, while required, does not save. Instead he told us that circumcision is not required and does not save.

Your point of view has Paul and Titus committing a sin by failing to follow God's commandments just because of some people's misguided opinions. My interpretation is consistent with Paul's actions and words.

 

[TorahKeeper]

Paul was proving his point that salvation was not obtained by obedience. I wonder why you want to dismiss something that God Himself said? Very curious.

 

[Petrel]

Ok, I'll try an example. Say some bunch of loonies started saying that reading your Bible was necessary for salvation. Would you decide to make the point that it is not necessary by refusing to read your Bible ever again? That is essentially what you are saying that Paul is doing.

 

[StefanM]

How about this... are Gentiles required to be circumcised?

 

[yeshua4me2]

I have no dogamtic idea why God forbade pork. but (as i am now a farmer, though small time) i can give you reasons not to raise pigs.

here are some intresting facts about pigs (not all are reasons to not raise pork, but as you will see, there are some)


pigs do not sweat, therefore they cool by evaporation, by rolling in mud, and if no mud is available, they will make theri own (by peeing on dirt)

pigs require 10 times the water as cows or goats

pigs are incubatores for many diseases, sars was transmitted to humans by an avian flu "incubating" in a pig

pigs are used to make over 40 drugs including insuline

pigs are very "smart", they can be trained like a dog to do tricks, and can be house broken, so can goats

pigs are used in 1000's of industrial uses

pig fat is a poison inwhich bacteria (most harmful) cannot grow

pigfat is used in soap

pigs reqire more food "per pound of flesh" than all other farm animals

pigs carry trictinosis which is a most painful bacterial infection, that is deadly

trictinosos can only be killed by high temperature cooking, which was unlikely to be achieved before modern cooking methods

God promised that if Jews kept this law (and others obviously) that they would not suffer the fate of pagan nations. (trictinosis is historically and literally not a jewish disease)

pigs can swim

pigs are DIRECTALY responsible for many deaths during every major war in the last twothousand years. (exception being wars after the advent of modern farming method)

during WWI and WWII and Korea (when the armies of the world still kept livestock on bases) more deaths were caused by avian flues transmitted to humans by pig that the any major battel of the wars.

i very seldom eat pork, and would (except wild pigs) neevr raise them. wild pigs are worth a fortune, so i sell them when i trap them.

if pigs and birds (chickens or game birds) are kept seperatly they a perfectaly safe to raise.

i have trained a pig to do tricks and to be housebroken. i know i am weird.

but i actually raise goats and chickens (as extra income) and goats are far more disgusting than pigs.

if you would like to know why PM me as i will not expain this on an open thread

thankyou and God Bless

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by TorahKeeper:
Why do you need Paul to confirm something God told us to do already? Sounds like you are trusting man more than God.

If Paul wrote it in scripture, God said it. Unless you don't believe that scripture is the Word of God.

Paul and Peter both very clearly and expressly said that circumcision is not longer a requirement.

The passage with Titus dealt with false doctrines. Still not a difficult concept, unless you desire to be disobedient.

Asserting that rabbinnic law is mandatory for Christians is false doctrine. There are numerous NT passages that attest to that, and they have been posted here by several people.