Why he left IFB

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

Well said Bronco!

Bad things happen to people in chuches. David committed adultery, then murder. Abraham lied about his wife twice. Jonah got drunk and his son uncovered his nakedness. We are sinful people. No one is denying that, nor approving of anything ANY Christian does in ANY church. But don't come here saying that all IFB churches have this problem, or most of them, or most of the ones you know, because I won't believe it as my experience has been the exact opposite. I could start an OP about atrocities that have happened in the SBC, The Methodist Church, you name it, but that would not be right.

Let me say loud and clear for Alphabet Soup, NNE CONDONES ABUSE, NOWHERE, NO HOW. I have someone in my family who has been abused, not in church, but by a family member. I am trying to give her all the support I can. I know this to be true, that is the difference here. I know not any of you, how truthful you are, no offense, nor you I. Personally I wonder about people that want advice concerning something this serious from people that don't even know them.

That being said, if I went to a church like the OP presented, I would have left a long time before imo. If I knew of churches like that in my area, where abuses were taking place, I would warn others. But I would not condemn all churches of that type, no more than I would condemn all dentists for the ones that have hurt me by denying more painkiller. I made sure I went to a dentist that was about comfort, not getting done. But back to the point I made about getting advice from other Christians that don't know you that well: the family member that I am trying to prayerfull and spiritually support that has been abused has gotten some terrible advise from people that call themselves Christians, and do not know nor care about her situation. They tried to put the blame on her to a certain extent and wanted her to stay in a relationship because God hates all divorce. Everyone has an opinion and they all stink. Give me what sayeth the Lord, and the power of the Holy Spirit to apply it to my life.

:applause:Bravo brother Bronco...well said! I'll say the same to brother John of Japan as well! These guys are definitely throwing the baby out with with the bathwater all too often. No one here has denied that there are some abusive and unscriptural IFBs (and they should be rebuked and avoided) but it is not reasonable, right, nor accurate to throw a blanket over the majority of good, Biblical IFB churches and indict them for the sins of the few. Baptist Churches (in general) are autonomous as a rule (SBC's included) and not (strictly speaking) answerable to one another. By the same token, I want to add that I believe that any of the other denominational churches of every type and tradition that are misleading their members by teaching them false doctrine or NO Bible doctrinal truth whatsoever are equally guilty before God and man of being ABUSIVE as well. By the way Bronco...when you said "Jonah got drunk and his son uncovered his nakedness" above...I think you meant Noah...not Jonah...yes? Not being nit-picky brother....it's just that I used to do a lot of proof-reading and it was my job to notice stuff like that:laugh:. I appreciate you and enjoy your posts....even when you occasionally take ME to task!:smilewinkgrin:

Bro.Greg:saint:

 

[Bronconagurski]

:applause:Bravo brother Bronco...well said! I'll say the same to brother John of Japan as well! These guys are definitely throwing the baby out with with the bathwater all too often. No one here has denied that there are some abusive and unscriptural IFBs (and they should be rebuked and avoided) but it is not reasonable, right, nor accurate to throw a blanket over the majority of good, Biblical IFB churches and indict them for the sins of the few. Baptist Churches (in general) are autonomous as a rule (SBC's included) and not (strictly speaking) answerable to one another. By the same token, I want to add that I believe that any of the other denominational churches of every type and tradition that are misleading their members by teaching them false doctrine or NO Bible doctrinal truth whatsoever are equally guilty before God and man of being ABUSIVE as well. By the way Bronco...when you said "Jonah got drunk and his son uncovered his nakedness" above...I think you meant Noah...not Jonah...yes? Not being nit-picky brother....it's just that I used to do a lot of proof-reading and it was my job to notice stuff like that:laugh:. I appreciate you and enjoy your posts....even when you occasionally take ME to task!:smilewinkgrin:

Bro.Greg:saint:

Yep, Noah, as Jonah directly disobeyed God and did not want to preach to people he did not think deserved salvation. Thanks for the heads up. I really should proof read more.

I enjoy your posts as well, even though, like you said, we may disagree in things.

 

[abcgrad94]

But don't come here saying that all IFB churches have this problem, or most of them, or most of the ones you knowbecause I won't believe it as my experience has been the exact opposite.

Let me say loud and clear for Alphabet Soup

Thanks for the dig at my username. Very kind and mature, and a perfect example of IFBx attitude to those who dare disagree with them. If you can't win a debate, just start name calling and downing your opponents.

To make it perfectly clear, no one here has said ALL IFB's are bad. I said that my overall experience (in many different homes and churches) was bad. Don't worry, I get your point now. You don't believe me, or Luke, or the man in the OP's link. We're all a bunch of liars because you personally did not witness or experience what we have, so you refuse to believe. Ok, then.

I know they're out there, still serving as deacons, still teaching Sunday school, still pretending to be "good people" and deceiving many. I could mention about 10 by name off the top of my head. But don't worry, I'll go back under my rock now and shut up. It's kind of pointless to talk to people who think you're a liar.

 

[Don]

I know they're out there, still serving as deacons, still teaching Sunday school, still pretending to be "good people" and deceiving many. I could mention about 10 by name off the top of my head.

Now you've described individuals, not churches; would you clarify?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Thanks for the dig at my username. Very kind and mature, and a perfect example of IFBx attitude to those who dare disagree with them. If you can't win a debate, just start name calling and downing your opponents.

To make it perfectly clear, no one here has said ALL IFB's are bad. I said that my overall experience (in many different homes and churches) was bad. Don't worry, I get your point now. You don't believe me, or Luke, or the man in the OP's link. We're all a bunch of liars because you personally did not witness or experience what we have, so you refuse to believe. Ok, then.

I know they're out there, still serving as deacons, still teaching Sunday school, still pretending to be "good people" and deceiving many. I could mention about 10 by name off the top of my head. But don't worry, I'll go back under my rock now and shut up. It's kind of pointless to talk to people who think you're a liar.

Is it time to try a Reformed or Old School Baptist group? You might be pleasently supprised:love2:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Now you've described individuals, not churches; would you clarify?

What are churches but individuals congregating together?

 

[abcgrad94]

Now you've described individuals, not churches; would you clarify?

Churches are made of individuals. Individuals move around to other locations. Pastors move from church to church. For example, an abusive pastor may be at one church, and the church may follow him and his ways or at least tolerate abusive behavior from him. I would call this an abusive church. They allow a dictator to decide what they wear, what they do, etc.

Then you might have churches where the pastor is a good man, but there is sin in the camp which he knows about, but does not report. I know one pastor who KNOWINGLY had a child molester serving as Sunday School teacher but never reported the man to the police or let the congregation know. He handled the situation in his own way and after a month of counseling and a few crocodile tears, "forgave" the man and swept it under the rug. The church, in blissful ignorance, trusts this man to teach their children. I would also call this an abusive church, because even if the majority of the people are good, there is hidden sin there.

 

[abcgrad94]

Is it time to try a Reformed or Old School Baptist group? You might be pleasently supprised:love2:

We're currently attending a Missionary Baptist church.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Churches are made of individuals. Individuals move around to other locations. Pastors move from church to church. For example, an abusive pastor may be at one church, and the church may follow him and his ways or at least tolerate abusive behavior from him. I would call this an abusive church. They allow a dictator to decide what they wear, what they do, etc.

Then you might have churches where the pastor is a good man, but there is sin in the camp which he knows about, but does not report. I know one pastor who KNOWINGLY had a child molester serving as Sunday School teacher but never reported the man to the police or let the congregation know. He handled the situation in his own way and after a month of counseling and a few crocodile tears, "forgave" the man and swept it under the rug. The church, in blissful ignorance, trusts this man to teach their children. I would also call this an abusive church, because even if the majority of the people are good, there is hidden sin there.

I can add to that list....pedofile ...pastor knowing about it meaning guys arrest record but shutting up & giving this perverted access to kids. A sad outcome for the families....but the pastor still in the pulpit.

 

[Don]

This is where I agree with ABC: a pastor or member of a church who does something wrong and it's swept under the rug; or teaches incorrect things like women have to wear dresses; and the entire group of individuals--i.e., the church--goes along with, condones, and/or even supports the person and/or teachings. This has to be stood against.

Here's where I disagree: what's been described in the last two pages is individuals within a church, and condemning the entire group of individuals because of that individual. Or condemning a group of churches--entire denomination, if you must--because of individuals.

Let's free the church members of the incorrect teachings of poor pastors; let's call out the individuals in our churches who need to be called out. But if our complaint is about individuals, where's the justice, the fairness, the rightness of labeling all, most, or even many of those churches?

 

[Bronconagurski]

Thanks for the dig at my username. Very kind and mature, and a perfect example of IFBx attitude to those who dare disagree with them. If you can't win a debate, just start name calling and downing your opponents.

To make it perfectly clear, no one here has said ALL IFB's are bad. I said that my overall experience (in many different homes and churches) was bad. Don't worry, I get your point now. You don't believe me, or Luke, or the man in the OP's link. We're all a bunch of liars because you personally did not witness or experience what we have, so you refuse to believe. Ok, then.

I know they're out there, still serving as deacons, still teaching Sunday school, still pretending to be "good people" and deceiving many. I could mention about 10 by name off the top of my head. But don't worry, I'll go back under my rock now and shut up. It's kind of pointless to talk to people who think you're a liar.

Y'all are badmouthing IFB churches like crazy and you can't take a little joke? With your holier than thou attitude no one can survive your scrutiny. If you dig far enough y'all will probably discover an IFB on the grassy knoll. Oh hope you finally get that big ax of yours ground. Oh no,I took a dig at your ax. Incorrigible, I am.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

“There is one thing I would especially warn you against…one of the greatest curses I believe of the present day—the practice of novel-reading. If you value your mind and soul, avoid it as you would a dangerous serpent. I cannot tell you what I would give to be able to forget certain novels I have read and to efface their influence from my memory. And I firmly believe, though some would deny it, …that no Christian ever did or ever will read them without injury, …very serious injury too, if the habit is indulged in. It is like opium-smoking, and begats a craving for more that must be supplied. Better books are neglected, and no one can estimate the mischief that results. Few, I believe, could honestly ask God’s blessing upon the reading of a novel, and few would venture to assert that they read them to the glory of God…. The only safety is in avoiding them as one of Satan’s most subtle snares.”

Taylor, Howard, Dr. and Mrs. Hudson Taylor in Early Years: The Growth of a Soul. Littleton, CO: OMF Books, 1996 reprint of 1911 edition.

This statement by Mr. Taylor is absolutely insane.

"Take as an illustration of questions that are constantly coming up, the matter of theater-going, dancing and the use of tobacco. Many who are indulging in these things will ask you triumphantly if you speak against them, “Does the Bible say, ‘Thou shalt not go to the theater’?” “Does the Bible say, ‘Thou shalt not dance’?” “Does the Bible say, ‘Thou shalt not smoke’?” That is not the question. The question is, Is our heavenly Father well pleased when He sees one of His children in the theater, at the dance, or smoking? That is a question for each to decide for himself, prayerfully, seeking light from the Holy Spirit.

Torrey is correct here: That is no issue, the problem is when an IFB or anyone else preaches as dogma and incontrivertible fact that his own P.O.V. on the topic is "Truth"....IF you are to do so...then you do indeed need a verse where the Bible says "Thou shalt not"...Otherwise, you are preaching as dogma mere tradition and personal opinion. That is wrong, and I believe it creates an unnecessary obstacle to the furtherance of the simplicity of the gospel.

"they rob our prayers of power"

Bunk.

 

[Salty]

Torrey is correct here: That is no issue, the problem is when an IFB or anyone else preaches as dogma and incontrivertible fact that his own P.O.V. on the topic is "Truth"....IF you are to do so...then you do indeed need a verse where the Bible says "Thou shalt not"...Otherwise, you are preaching as dogma mere tradition and personal opinion. That is wrong, and I believe it creates an unnecessary obstacle to the furtherance of the simplicity of the gospel.

I am going off on this a bit - so check this new thread

 

[John of Japan]

This statement by Mr. Taylor is absolutely insane.

Yet Taylor was a tremendous missionary and missionary statesman.

My point is that we all have blind spots, yet God uses us--even independent, fundamental Baptists.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

Yet Taylor was a tremendous missionary and missionary statesman.

My point is that we all have blind spots, yet God uses us--even independent, fundamental Baptists.

Oh, absolutely. I still go to an IFB Church. If for no other reason than hearing a preacher quote an NIV from the pulpit literally sounds like fingernails on a chalk-board to me :tongue3: It just does. That, and I prefer the Independent Missions model. We KNOW which missionaries we support et. al.

Pound-for-pound...I think IFB's often accomplish more than MANY others do for the cause of Christ. There ARE...however, some tendencies amongst them/us...which definitely NEED to be addressed. The writer on this website certainly isn't the person to do it. He whines like a pansy. If I read the word "abuse" one more time, I'll vomit. But we do have to admit that it gets laughable to have preachers Pontificating about playing cards...but they have UNO and Phase-10 in their house. (I have in fact seen it, more than once) That kind of thing does get ridiculous.

 

[John of Japan]

Oh, absolutely. I still go to an IFB Church. If for no other reason than hearing a preacher quote an NIV from the pulpit literally sounds like fingernails on a chalk-board to me :tongue3: It just does. That, and I prefer the Independent Missions model. We KNOW which missionaries we support et. al.

Pound-for-pound...I think IFB's often accomplish more than MANY others do for the cause of Christ. There ARE...however, some tendencies amongst them/us...which definitely NEED to be addressed. The writer on this website certainly isn't the person to do it. He whines like a pansy. If I read the word "abuse" one more time, I'll vomit. But we do have to admit that it gets laughable to have preachers Pontificating about playing cards...but they have UNO and Phase-10 in their house. (I have in fact seen it, more than once) That kind of thing does get ridiculous.

I'm convinced the website owner thinks he was abused, but I'm not convinced he was really abused. Therefore, what he writes should be offensive to those who have really been abused.

For example, from what I read there, he is incensed that he was actually spanked in a Christian school? Really? How awful for him. :tonofbricks:

I was spanked in a Tennessee public school in about 1965. A public school mind you! But I don't whine about it and say I was abused. Actually, I was warned by the teacher, and deserved it.

About playing cards, in my circles the culprit was not just any kind of cards, but "face cards." I have a pamphlet from years ago by Charles Weigle ("No One Ever Cared for Me Like Jesus") telling how they were of the devil. But Rook and Uno and so forth were never considered wrong. In fact, I've played Rook with John R. Rice!

The story is told of a BJU student who went to Dr. Liverman, dean of students back in the day, and said with a shocked look, "Dr. Liverman, I saw some students playing Rook in the dorm. It was awful!!" Dr. Liverman replied, "Well, the only one who could ever beat me was Dr. Bob Jr.!" :laugh:

 

[Jerome]

He's also distressed he could only "play the sports they deemed were appropriate".

Anybody know what that snit's about?

 

[John of Japan]

He's also distressed he could only "play the sports they deemed were appropriate".

Anybody know what that snit's about?

Haven't a clue! Must have been a horrendous experience, though! :laugh:

 

[Alive in Christ]

All that I will say is that what the OP brother posted regarding his "issues", greivences and very negative encouters with the IFB...is right, lockstep, in line, with multultitudes of almost identical testimonies I have heard regarding the IFB.

"Where thier is smoke......"

 

[dcorbett]

I do pity that man...I belong to an IFB church that is growing and flourishing,
preaching the Gospel, seeing souls saved, outreaching to the community,
and a loving church family who all believe in "saved by grace" and "Go ye therefore"

Dunno what those other churches are doing...they are as alien as
the Westboro bunch to me.

Debbie Mc