Do you? How well do you know him and how long have you known him? Or are you just relying on what the media says, and the heavily edited videos that are so popular?
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Why I am #NEVERTRUMP
- Thread starter blessedwife318
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When were you appointed his judge?
That's a good verse to remember.Doesn't contradict the passage I posted, but still a good verse
I've not seen anyone thank God that they aren't extortioners, or unjust, or adulterers, or even tax collectors on this board but I may have missed it.
I'm even guilty of some things on that list. What's the difference? I know I'm a sinner saved only by the grace of God, and I recognize that my past failures were morally wrong. That doesn't make me a better person that Trump. Not at all. By any objective measure, I have a poor track record. But I KNOW I need forgiveness for my sins, of which there have been many. That's not saying I'm morally superior to Trump. That's just saying I am a believer in Jesus who recognizes that confession of sin is not an optional thing.
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Exactly! Now you are getting it!
Matthew 7:3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but don’t consider the beam that is in your own eye?
4 Or how will you tell your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye;’ and behold, the beam is in your own eye?
5 You hypocrite! First remove the beam out of your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother’s eye.
All of us are born sinners. That's the default state of humanity. One should assume a person is lost until having sufficient evidence to the contrary. Trump hasn't given us the evidence, period. It's not media bias. He's made the statements out of his own mouth.
So we agree that judging is not wrong. Glad to see we are making some progress. So if you care to please go to my OP and show what you disagree with about what I posted about Trump. Not about Cruz, or Hilary, just Trump. Defend him from the judgment I made if you will, no attacking anyone else. No one else has tried that.
Exactly. And none of us are better than any of the rest of us.
Why assume a person you don't know is lost? I don't know you. Should I assume you are lost?
What evidence would you find acceptable? And who gets to set the standard of what that evidence is? You? If so, who gave you that right?
Has he ever publicly denied Christ? Can you post evidence of that?
Not me. I am not her judge.
Yes, you may assume I am lost. I would expect you to do so if I entered your church.
Evidence is from Scripture. Christ says if we love him, we will keep his commandments. Obviously none of us does that perfectly---but do we attempt it?
I simply cannot get past his statement that he did not ask God for forgiveness. The man is a walking vat of unconfessed sin, at best, and he's an unbeliever at worst.
Even if I grant you that he may be a Christian, his disregard for his unconfessed sin is enough for me to reject his candidacy.
I do appreciate your consistency. It's honorable.
Since we are on the issue of Judging, let's not forget about 1 Cor 5:11-13
But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”
Trump claims to be a Christian, so he bears the name of a brother. So I do believe under that criteria this applies.
So let's look, sexual immorality, check, Trump has no problem bragging about his conquest.
Greed, check, Trump has no problem telling us how rich he is.
Idolater, well I let others decided but remember he puts his name on everything he touches.
Reviler, check, just look at the way he talked about Megan Kelly, Former President Bush, Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz, Carly Fiorina, etc.
Drunkard, unknown
Swindler, check, his multiple bankruptcies, and university fraud, along with using imminent domain to take a old women's house fit here.
So we have 4 out of 6 which means he is not someone we should fellowship with, according to the Bibles instructions. I'm not going to vote for someone the Bible makes clear I'm to have nothing to do with.
But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”
Trump claims to be a Christian, so he bears the name of a brother. So I do believe under that criteria this applies.
So let's look, sexual immorality, check, Trump has no problem bragging about his conquest.
Greed, check, Trump has no problem telling us how rich he is.
Idolater, well I let others decided but remember he puts his name on everything he touches.
Reviler, check, just look at the way he talked about Megan Kelly, Former President Bush, Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz, Carly Fiorina, etc.
Drunkard, unknown
Swindler, check, his multiple bankruptcies, and university fraud, along with using imminent domain to take a old women's house fit here.
So we have 4 out of 6 which means he is not someone we should fellowship with, according to the Bibles instructions. I'm not going to vote for someone the Bible makes clear I'm to have nothing to do with.
And where does the bible require us to ask God for forgiveness? We are told to confess sin, not ask for forgiveness. If we believe, our sins were already forgiven on the Cross.
When has he ever said he has never confessed his sin? I can't help but think you are conflating confession of sin (which is biblical) with asking God for forgiveness (which is not biblical).
Again, how do you know or when did he say he has never confessed his sin?
He was raised Presbyterian, and still claims Presbyterian as his church affiliation. The Presbyterian liturgy (Book of Common Worship, page 53) says:
Merciful God,
we confess that we have sinned against you
in thought, word, and deed,
by what we have done,
and by what we have left undone.
We have not loved you
with our whole heart and mind and strength.
We have not loved our neighbors as ourselves.
In your mercy forgive what we have been,
help us amend what we are,
and direct what we shall be,
so that we may delight in your will
and walk in your ways,
to the glory of your holy name.
The problem I have with such a liturgy is that it can so easily become nothing more than a religious ritual, with no real meaning to the heart and soul of the person reciting it.
But if just one he recited that liturgy in a church service, and really meant it, does that not meet your criteria for confession of sin?
Let's talk turkey for a moment. I am not a great Trump supporter. In fact he is the worst possible candidate, from those who were in the running a year ago, for the GOP to put forward as this election's Presidential candidate. In my opinion he is an arrogant, self-serving pig.
But what grates on me, as a Christian, and as a Pastor (now retired) is the self-righteous condemnation of the man based on sound bites and media coverage.
To me it smacks of Luke 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed to himself like this: ‘God, I thank you, that I am not like other men, extortionists, unrighteous, adulterers, or even like this tax collector' (or politician).
Why should I? I don't know you and know absolutely nothing about you, so I have no rational reason to assume you are lost.
If I did, then we would both be wrong, and guilty of judgmentalism.
Self righteous judgment is always wrong.
Agreed, we are making so much progress.
There is no doubt he failed to remain faithful in his marriages. But if that proves he is lost then so are a huge number of baptist pastors. Not to mention deacons and lay persons sitting in the pews every Sunday.
Does being rich equate to greed? Why?
Yes, it is known. Well, known to everybody except the irrational Trump haters. Trump has never smoked cigarettes, drank alcohol or done drugs. His older brother, Fred, was an alcoholic for many years and warned Trump to avoid drinking. Fred ultimately died from his addiction.
Trump has never filed bankruptcy. Some of the companies he owned did so, but he never did. And it is legal.
And I would have a lot greater respect for your level of knowledge if you would learn to spell "eminent." And Trump never took anyone's house. It was Atlantic City that condemned her house and filed for ownership under eminent domain. And lost!
Vera Coking, who owned the house in question, remained in her house until 2010, when she moved to a retirement home in the San Francisco Bay Area near her daughter, Claudia.
Property records show that Coking transferred ownership of the house to her daughter, Claudia on June 2, 2010. Claudia subsequently tried to sell the house, putting it on the market in 2011 with an initial asking price of $5 million. By September 2013 the price had reduced to $1 million, but it still did not sell as Atlantic City continued to suffer the lingering effects of the financial crisis of 2007–08 and over-building during the boom that preceded it.
The property was finally sold for $583,000 in an auction on July 31, 2014. Neither the Casino Reinvestment Development Authority (the Atlantic City agency which had filed the original eminent domain request) nor the owners of Trump Plaza expressed any interest in the auction. The buyer was Carl Icahn, who held the debt on Trump Entertainment, owner of Trump Plaza. He subsequently demolished the house on November 19, 2014.
Only if you have repented of doing so.
I didn't say it proved he was lost, I just said he brags about his conquest meaning he is sexually immoral, and per the Bible that reason alone is enough to break fellowship with him until he repents.
Do you really think he is not greedy? Fine we can for the sake of the argument give him a pass on that one, but per the Bible only one of the reason that are listed are needed to break fellowship since it says or, not and.
Well thank you for that information. I did not want to assume either way as I didn't know of any way to check out that information, as I try to make it a point to only post about Trump things I can quote him saying with video to back it up.
Just because it is legal doesn't make it right. The rest I have edited because if Trump wins and he opens up libel laws it could be trouble.
I've never claimed to be a great speller, or even a good speller, but if that is the only thing you can find to attack I figure I'm doing well
But he did try, even if he lost. Or let me rephrase he used his money as a crony capitalist to influence Atlantic City and lost.
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Are you making a righteous judgment there?
Please point out how you judged that I was being self-righteous in my reasons for being #NEVERTRUMP?
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