Why I Support Universal Healthcare Coverage

[carpro]

From the OP source:

For years, Paul Hannum didn't have health insurance while he worked as a freelance cameraman in southern California.

One Sunday, Hannum complained of a stomachache which alarmed his pregnant fiancée, Sarah Percy. "He wasn't a complainer," she said. "He's the type of guy who, if he got a cold, he'll power through it. I never had known him to complain about anything."

Hannum thought he had a stomach flu or food poisoning from bad chicken. On Monday, his brother saw him looking ashen and urged him to go to the hospital. "He had a little girl on the way," his older brother Curtis Hannum said. "He didn't want the added burden of an ER visit to hang on their finances. He thought 'I'll just wait,' and he got worse and worse."

By the time Hannum got to the hospital and was admitted to surgery, it was too late.

Paul Hannum, 45, died on Thursday, August 3, 2006, from a ruptured appendix. His daughter, Cameron was born two months later.

If this is an example of someone they determined died from lack of insurance, this study is useless.

Hannum made a conscious decision not to carry insurance for many years. His fault.

He refused to go to the ER. His fault.

He finally went to the ER. By the time he was admitted for surgery, he died. His fault. This indicates he was scheduled for surgery without regard to his lack of insurance. That's the law.

It appears Hannum died from a ruptured appendix complicated by terminal headedness and stupidity. Not because he had no insurance.

 

[carpro]

In the first place, like the 47 million "ninsured americans"is a lie, so is the 45,000, and for mostly the same reasons.

Secondly, the organization that requested the "study" is a universal healthcare advocate. Polling companies always try to please the people that contract them.

Lastly, and most important, if you think 45,000 is a big number, wait till you see how many die from lack of care when "insurance" is free. The death rates for cancer victims, for instance, is much higher in countries with government run healthcare than it is in the U.S.

The reasons are simple, rationing and rationing.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4367132,00.html

How thousands of cancer patients and doctors have been betrayed
25,000 deaths a year could be prevented if we matched Europe's best hospital treatment, reports health editor Anthony Browne

SocietyGuardian.co.uk
Sunday March 3, 2002

The official limit is 315 a year, or a maximum of six in one week. Medical authorities have decreed that, if a cancer doctor sees any more new patients than that, it could endanger their health - the doctor simply will not have enough time to ensure they get the care they need.

SNIP

It's the biggest health scandal in modern Britain: according to a World Health Organisation report to be published later this year, around 10,000 British people die unnecessarily from cancer each year - three times as many as are killed on our roads. If Britain had the same services as the best available in Europe, it would save 25,000 lives a year - the population of a small town.

SNIP
For thousands, delaying treatment makes the difference between life and death. A recent Glasgow study of patients waiting seven weeks for radiotherapy found that for one in five lung cancer patients the delays meant curable disease becoming incurable.

Sometimes patients may be denied treatment. Although lung cancer is the most commonly diag nosed cancer in Britain, with 40,000 new cases a year, only 100 surgeons can remove tumours. A study last week by the Society of Cardiothoracic Surgeons found fewer than one in 10 lung-cancer patients was receiving surgery, compared to one in four in the US ...

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Remember folks, M.P. has called Christ a terrorist

Are you a pathological liar? I wonder, since you cannot seem to stop repeating this lie.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Thanks MP. I have read this thread and believe it would be easier to teach Algebra to a Chihuahua than convince most right-wingers of the need of universal health care.

I am somewhat disappointed with President Obama and feel that he has moved much to far in trying to bring the republicans on board. Hopefully, the Progressives in Congress will at least get a bill passed that we can build on for future improvement.

I agree on both counts, RS. The current plan is so watered down that it basically is a gift to the insurance companies.

As to teaching Algebra to a Chihuahua, I believe that noble little dog has more sense and reasoning capability than most of these righties.

 

[OldRegular]

There is the fallacy. That is not what is proposed. Most people would keep their current plans. Plus it is also fallacious that government cannot run things efficiently. The postal service is a quasi-governmental agency, that all in all, runs pretty well. Its issues have more to do with changing technology than its inefficiency. The government does many things well...protects us from foreign aggressors, builds and maintains great highways, pays social security checks to seniors, etc.

I heard a good analogy...Having a public option doesn't mean you can't have private insurance. We have public universities, yet private colleges and universities thrive right along side them.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I believe you to be the liar, bub. Denying yer own words.

If you don't like me throwing them back at you, why don't you stick to those "friendly" atheist sites ?

 

[Magnetic Poles]

I believe you to be the liar, bub. Denying yer own words.

If you don't like me throwing them back at you, why don't you stick to those "friendly" atheist sites ?

I don't care what you say...I know what I said and you know you are misrepresenting my words. You are a liar who for some reason has a sick infatuation with me. You need to truly get a life of your own and stop living vicariously. And quit trying to derail every thread.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I have a great life. You wouldn't believe it. A lot of folks would love to be in my shoes. As far as infatuation, I fight evil when I see it, and you post it up a whole bunch.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

I have a great life. You wouldn't believe it. A lot of folks would love to be in my shoes. As far as infatuation, I fight evil when I see it, and you post it up a whole bunch.

So rather than derailing and calling me a troll (which proves you have no idea what one is, or you are a liar, which we know) how about commenting on the subject of the thread.

 

[OldRegular]

I

As to teaching Algebra to a Chihuahua, I believe that noble little dog has more sense and reasoning capability than most of these righties.

Chihuahua a dog? I thought that was what they used in lab experiments.

One thing you and your fellow travelers fail to consider that a substantial number of doctors [I believe about 45%.] have said they will give up practice if the Government takes over health care.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Chihuahua a dog? I thought that was what they used in lab experiments.

One thing you and your fellow travelers fail to consider that a substantial number of doctors [I believe about 45%.] have said they will give up practice if the Government takes over health care.

Again, that option is not on the table.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

All sorts of charges get tossed around on this forum. Accusations of Communist, Fascist, or "why do you hate America" get slung like mud at a monster truck rally. But does anyone really try to stop the shouting and inflammatory language long enough to try to understand WHY someone may disagree with you?

Case in point. When I see stories LIKE THIS ONE, indicating that up to 45,000 Americans die each year for lack of health insurance, it points out why I believe universal coverage is a moral imperative. This is a "pro-life" position. People who are already born also deserve to not needlessly die.

If you stop and think about how fervently you are against abortion, then maybe you can also understand the passion with which those of us who believe that universal coverage is an imperative for our nation. Just as it is easy to say those who are pro-choice on abortion have blood on their hands; the same could be said about those against national, universal health care.

As for so-called "death panels", they exist already...in the accounting offices of companies like United Healthcare which looks for every reason to deny coverage, and gives its CEO a billion dollar bonus...money that could be used to save many lives. Should an executive receive a bonus? Fine, but when people get denied basic procedures that can save lives, such an extreme amount outweighs that CEOs value. Bean counters at companies like United Healthcare, Aetna, Cigna, Humana, and others are making the life and death decisions...not the patients and their doctors.

Even if you don't buy the number of 45,000 per year, it is immaterial. The fact is, it is a widespread problem. If it is your wife, your husband, your child, your parent, it could be the most important person in the world.

Do I expect to persuade anyone here? No. But I hope it gives you pause to think.

If you were really concerned about making healthcare more affordable, you'd be lobbying Congress to pass tort reform, to abolish "in state" laws for insurance companies, to make medical proceedures tax deuctible, to give doctors the freedom to collectively negotiate with insurance companies and drive down the cost of medical care, to make every American eligible for a Health Savings Account (HSA), and removing the requirement that individuals must obtain a high-deductible insurance policy before opening an HSA, etc.

Until you do that, you don't care about making healthcare affordable to the poor. You just want a liberal government power grab.

 

[OldRegular]

Again, that option is not on the table.

You are showing either your naivete or being deliberately obtuse. Pelosi states that there will be a government run option which will swallow up all medical insurance. It is the leftists democrats determination to have a single payer plan. That is socialized medicine.

MP,
You are showing either your naivete or being deliberately obtuse.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

So rather than derailing and calling me a troll (which proves you have no idea what one is, or you are a liar, which we know) how about commenting on the subject of the thread.

Tort reform. Lifting interstate insurance regs. Stopping free emergency room health care for illegal aliens. For starters, but nothing you lefties want to even discuss. You would rather lie and tell us we have blood on our hands, the most absurd thing you have ever posted. （And that is saying something）How does one debate such a moronic post ? My advice to all was to ignore it, and base that on your hateful past.　

And if you tell us the government won't take over care, you are the liar. That, along with your other lies. And the fact that you tell us chihuahuas are smarter, Christ made terrorist threats, AND my pastor belongs to the KKK, and never backing them up make you the troll.

 

[Dragoon68]

The falacy greater than the one that people die because they don't have health insurance is that somehow the government can solve the problem. The government, friends, won't do anything but politize medical care, corrupt the process of obtaining it, introduce more waste to it, and, as always, tax those who produce to buy votes from those who don't.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

The falacy greater than the one that people die because they don't have health insurance is that somehow the government can solve the problem. The government, friends, won't do anything but politize medical care, corrupt the process of obtaining it, introduce more waste to it, and, as always, tax those who produce to buy votes from those who don't.

Funny how the same people who insist that we need the government to take over healthcare are the same ones who spent the last eight years screaming about how bad the VA and military hospital system is.

 

[OldRegular]

Funny how the same people who insist that we need the government to take over healthcare are the same ones who spent the last eight years screaming about how bad the VA and military hospital system is.

Not really when you consider that the hatred spewed by the democrats/liberals/Fascists against Bush makes the remarks of the tea party folks look like valentines! The cause for such hatred of Bush started because he would not roll over and let the democrats steal the election and exploded from there, fueled in part by his War on Terrorism.

 

[annsni]

The government has done so well with the Veteran's Administration and the care that is given to veterans. I really want THAT kind of healthcare.


:BangHead:


It's interesting that a friend of mine is a missionary doctor in the Congo - and he responded on my Facebook that medical care is a privilege and not a right. This is a man who has risked his life to save the lives of those who will never pay him.

 

[Alcott]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnetic Poles
...up to 45,000 Americans die each year for lack of health insurance, it points out why I believe universal coverage is a moral imperative.

It keeps being repeated frequently that hopsitals, ER's, et al, cannot refuse to treat patients without coverage, so that just 'raises the premiums for all of us that have coverage.' So in that way, is there not already 'universal healthcare?' Would the net change even be significant? And frankly, it's easy to see 45,000 dying annually because of ignorance or stubborness about seeking treatment. 'Universal coverage' will not make people smarter or more likely to change their unhealthy habits. And I don't think it will force people to get an annual or semi-annual checkup... but who knows on that one?

 

[Dragoon68]

Given the long track record of failed government "solutions" how can anyone have any shread of belief that therein lies the source to betterment of medical care? When will we learn?