Why is all Israel not Israel???

They still had to "receive" Him first, to receive the Power to become the sons of God. If they were elect, why were they not already His sons?
I am interested in the ones who refused Him, are they lost for good?

BBob,

 

How come you say that????

Jhn 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:

BBob,

TC; scripture says the election were saved. I take it to mean all the "elect", in that day.

Rom 11:7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

 

Yes, I know and if this be the case and only branches were blinded, then Israel as a Spiritual nation was not blinded but only a part of them who were non-elect. Right?

BBob,

 

When do you think this partial hardening took place?

Show me where it says until "end times"??

Apostle Paul said that he might "save" some of them, he must of thought the blindness was over. I know Jesus told Peter not to call common or unclean, that which He had cleaned (past tense) up. Of course He meant the Gentiles, for Peter didn't believe they had a right to salvation, until he was converted.

Its ironic that some of you believe that all Israel will be saved in MK and the Jews believe all Christians are going to hell.

BBob,

 

And they that received Him, gave he power. Plainly says they that received Him was first and a "condition".

Looks like it says: "as many as received Him" to me. And they that received Him, He gave them power to become the sons of God. May not say "first", but thats how it reads. KJV. Makes a lot more sense that they were all His own, in some way.

Also, they that "received Him" did something on their own before receiving the "Power".

Those that "rejected" Him, did something on their own also.

You don't have a good answer, so you throw up something that might be Western step logic, I don't know what it is but don't make sense.

BBob,

 

Truthfully, the Jews in the first century would not even read it, with the exception of those who received Him. The others said then and say now, that Jesus was not the Messiah.

Thanks for the step logic, I never went and looked at the original Greek text, it could have a different meaning, I don't know but with KJV, the "Power" was after the "receiving Him".

I must admit that "step logic" is new to me.

BBob,

 

Yes, inwardly but the flesh or body is still waiting on its redemption. They were looking for a Kingdom for the flesh. Jesus said the Kingdom is within you and I do not believe in several Kingdoms. I believe He is my King now, and certainly do not believe he will only reign a thousand years.

Mat 6:33But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Mat 13:11He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Rom 15:12And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.

1Cr 15:25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
BBob,

 

I told you that it is a spiritual Kingdom and the flesh has yet to become spiritual and have its part in the Kingdom.

For one point, we are kept by the Power of God, another OSAS, We were once dead, now we are alive, which is Spiritual and inwardly.

He seems to have a handle on the fact that we are in the Kingdom, that is good and unlike others who are still looking for it.

Then Gentiles did not replace Israel, but according to scripture the two, became as one.

What about Calvin??

John Calvin (1536)
"But a little later there followed the chiliasts, who limited the reign of Christ to a thousand years. Now their fiction is too childish either to need or to be worth a refutation. And the Apocalypse, from which they undoubtedly drew a pretext for their error does not support them. For the number "one thousand" (Rev. 20:4) does not apply to the eternal blessedness of the church but only to the various disturbances that awaited the church, while still toiling on earth."
"For when we apply to it the measure of our own understanding, what can we conceive that is not gross and earthly? So it happens that like beasts our senses attract us to what appeals to our flesh, and we grasp at what is at hand. So we see that the Chialists (i.e. those who believed that Christ would reign on earth for a thousand years) fell into a like error. Jesus intended to banish from the disciples' minds a false impression regarding the earthly kingdom: for that, as He points out in a few words, consists of the preaching of the Gospel. They have no cause therefore to dream of wealth, luxury, power in the world or any other earthly thing when they hear that Christ is reigning when He subdues the world to Himself by the preaching of the Gospel.It follows from this that His reign is spiritual and not after t he pattern of this world." - Comm. on Acts 1:8 (Torrance, VI, 32).


BBob,

 

Luk 17:21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Who was He talking to?? Even you said we were going through the mystery part of the Kingdom.

Waiting on what I said: The body to be delivered. Glad to see you admit we are in the Kingdom.

Is not the "elect" of Israel part of the church???

Now you would not make a happy camper for Calvin......

Calvin had help in his belief.

Philip Schaff (1877)
"Though millenialism was supressed by the early church, it was nevertheless from time to time revived by heretical sects." (Schaff's History, pg. 299 )

Eusebius (A.D.325)
"This same historian (Papias) also gives other accounts, which he says he adds as received by him from unwritten tradition, likewise certain strange parables of our Lord, and of His doctrine and some other matters rather too fabulous. In these he says there would be a certain millennium after the resurrection, and that there would be a corporeal reign of Christ on this very earth; which things he appears to have imagined, as if they were authorized by the apostolic narrations, not understanding correctly those matters which they propounded mystically in their representations. For he was very limited in his comprehension, as is evident from his discourses; yet he was the cause why most of the ecclesiastical writers, urging the antiquity of man, were carried away by a similar opinion; as, for instance, Irenaeus, or any other that adopted such sentiments. (Book III, Ch. 39)


BBob,