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Why is all Israel not Israel???

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Brother Bob, Nov 7, 2007.

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  1. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    1. We are now in the Now-not-yet kingdom, but in the MK, of course we will be reigning bodily (Rev. 20).

    2. Of course not! But we must take all of Scripture into consideration before we draw conclusions.

    3. There's nothing to indicate that Jesus was addressing believers. In fact, the inspired penman Luke says who Jesus was addressing--Pharisees. I'm content with that.

    4. How could it be His church when He hadn't established it as yet (Matt 16:18, I will build My church).
     
    #61 TCGreek, Nov 11, 2007
  2. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    What about the final Kingdom??? I do not know for sure how many you believe there are.
    I agree, with Christ being the Rock to begin with.

    Do you believe the Kingdom is "within" the Pharisees???

     
    #62 Brother Bob, Nov 11, 2007
  3. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    1. There is only one kingdom, but different aspects of it; for example, from the OT we learn about the kingdom in prophecy and so on. One Kingdom.

    2. The Kingdom was present in their midst in the person of Jesus (Matt. 12:28).
     
    #63 TCGreek, Nov 11, 2007
  4. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Right and not the body is not a part of it, but in the resurrection the body will be a part of it. What I said all along. Its I believe it will be forever.

    Well, I see you are going to stick with a translation you found and not all the rest.

    GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
    They can't say, 'Here it is!' or 'There it is!' You see, the kingdom of God is within you."

    King James Bible
    Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

    American Standard Version
    neither shall they say, Lo, here! or, There! for lo, the kingdom of God is within you.

    Douay-Rheims Bible
    Neither shall they say: Behold here, or behold there. For lo, the kingdom of God is within you

    English Revised Version
    neither shall they say, Lo, here! or, There! for lo, the kingdom of God is within you.

    Tyndale New Testament
    Neither shall men say, Lo here, lo there. For behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

    Weymouth New Testament
    Nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' --for the Kingdom of God is within you."

    Webster's Bible Translation
    Neither will they say, Lo here! or lo there! for behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

    World English Bible
    neither will they say,'Look, here!' or,'Look, there!' for behold, the Kingdom of God is within you.
     
    #64 Brother Bob, Nov 11, 2007
  5. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib New Member

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    I ask you a question, please definition what is "kingdom" means?

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
    #65 DeafPosttrib, Nov 11, 2007
  6. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    1. You will find no disagreement here.


    2. A translation reflected in the following: NASB, TNIV, HCSB and ESV. I didn't invent it.
     
    #66 TCGreek, Nov 11, 2007
  7. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    How was your day. I pray you had a good service today.

    BBob,
     
    #67 Brother Bob, Nov 11, 2007
  8. Isaiah40:28

    Isaiah40:28 New Member

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    I use the NIV and it has a foonote for "within" in Luke 17:21 that says, or "among". And the study notes suggest two options for meaning:
    1) "within you"--kingdom is present as an inward reality, hidden in people's hearts
    2) "among you"--points to the presence of the kingdom among them in the person of Jesus.

    On a personal note, I'm not a dispensationalist and currently lean to the amil position.
     
    #68 Isaiah40:28, Nov 11, 2007
  9. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    I take it as Jesus is the "King" of that Kingdom within you.
    There are several other scriptures that will put the Kingdom already with the believers.

    BBob,
     
    #69 Brother Bob, Nov 11, 2007
  10. Isaiah40:28

    Isaiah40:28 New Member

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    And I haven't really thought about this too much so I'm not in a good position to enter the debate. I can only read and quote my Bible's notes. :)
     
    #70 Isaiah40:28, Nov 11, 2007
  11. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Nothing wrong with what you said. If Jesus is the King of the Kingdom within you, then He is a part of that Kingdom also. So, among you would not exclude within you either. In that case, it was among them and within the believers that were with Him.

    1Cr 12:12¶For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also [is] Christ.


    BBob,
     
    #71 Brother Bob, Nov 11, 2007
  12. Isaiah40:28

    Isaiah40:28 New Member

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    Bob,
    completely derailing the thread for a minute:
    How do you post a reply?
    Sometimes I find the formatting of your posts confusing.

    The post above looks like you wrote what I actually wrote.
    How did you do that?
     
    #72 Isaiah40:28, Nov 11, 2007
  13. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    Thanks for asking. I had a good worship. How about you?
     
    #73 TCGreek, Nov 11, 2007
  14. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    By this, I presume TCGreek means "among", or "in the midst".

    Hey. a game of "Dueling Bible Versions"!! Haven't been in one of those for awhile! Can I play along, too? I'll do the 'short' version. Inside, within, in the midst of, or among? Lk. 17:21, huh?
    Uh, Y'all think this is, or might be a verse we all should not be too dogmatic on, just maybe, as to how it should read? How does it read in the Greek language??? Says "εντος υμων". Hmmm!

    If I remember my smattering of Greek from Bible College, "within", "inside", or "in the midst" are all among the permissible translations of this phrase, depending on the context. So, I'll say it should properly be rendered as ...! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

    Church time, guys. Gotta' run!

    Ed
     
    #74 EdSutton, Nov 11, 2007
  15. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    When it is ajar.
     
    #75 npetreley, Nov 11, 2007
  16. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    1. You hit the reply icon at the bottom right, which you do.
    2. A box will come up and at the top of the box there is icons A B I U A, box, box box.
    3 Click the last box on the right top and you will get quote quote.

    4. copy what you want to paste, like all I said, and put your cursor in the middle of the two quotes signs and paste.
    5. Then go below the last quote and type your message.
    6. Try it, its quick.

    BBob,
     
    #76 Brother Bob, Nov 11, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2007
  17. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Your argument don't hold water. If "in your midst" was the proper use instead of within you, then the words: The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: (would not be true), for if it was in the midst, you could see it, but its within you, so it comes not by seeing.


    Luk 17:20¶And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

    Luk 17:21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. (so, it comes not by observation), what say you?????
     
    #77 Brother Bob, Nov 11, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2007
  18. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    As long as I am above ground, its a good day...........:) Thank you,

    BBob,
     
    #78 Brother Bob, Nov 11, 2007
  19. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    What do you possibly mean with "Your argument don't hold water.", in response to a quote of how a particular version rendered a particular verse?

    My only "argument" is that maybe we should not be dogmatic on how the verse is rendered.

    Should you disagree with the rendering, here found in the NASB (since that is the version you are citing, and erroneously attributing as something I said), as opposed to attempting to 'invalidate' this reading, by reading your own theology into the verse, I suggest you should take it up with the Lockman Foundation, the 'owners' and translators of the NASB.

    They are the ones who did this translation; I just repeated it.

    Why are you wanting to "shoot the messenger", here?

    Ed
     
    #79 EdSutton, Nov 11, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2007
  20. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    You are right Ed; I really meant that for TC; Him and I have been discussing this for several posts. Sorry,

    BBob,
     
    #80 Brother Bob, Nov 11, 2007
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