Why is all Israel not Israel???

[TCGreek]

What do you think, do you believe the body will be a part of the Kingdom then???

1. We are now in the Now-not-yet kingdom, but in the MK, of course we will be reigning bodily (Rev. 20).

Jesus is the resurrection, do you think He got it wrong???

2. Of course not! But we must take all of Scripture into consideration before we draw conclusions.

I believe He was talking about all His believers. Its plain, He meant the Church to me.
Luk 17:21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

3. There's nothing to indicate that Jesus was addressing believers. In fact, the inspired penman Luke says who Jesus was addressing--Pharisees. I'm content with that.

4. How could it be His church when He hadn't established it as yet (Matt 16:18, I will build My church).

 

[Brother Bob]

Originally Posted by Brother Bob
What do you think, do you believe the body will be a part of the Kingdom then???

1. We are now in the Now-not-yet kingdom, but in the MK, of course we will be reigning bodily (Rev. 20).

What about the final Kingdom??? I do not know for sure how many you believe there are.

Jesus is the resurrection, do you think He got it wrong???
2. Of course not! But we must take all of Scripture into consideration before we draw conclusions.

I agree, with Christ being the Rock to begin with.

I believe He was talking about all His believers. Its plain, He meant the Church to me.
Luk 17:21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
3. There's nothing to indicate that Jesus was addressing believers. In fact, the inspired penman Luke says who Jesus was addressing--Pharisees. I'm content with that.

4. How could it be His church when He hadn't established it as yet (Matt 16:18, I will build My church).

Do you believe the Kingdom is "within" the Pharisees???

Mat 16:18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

 

[TCGreek]

What about the final Kingdom??? I do not know for sure how many you believe there are.

1. There is only one kingdom, but different aspects of it; for example, from the OT we learn about the kingdom in prophecy and so on. One Kingdom.

Do you believe the Kingdom is "within" the Pharisees???

2. The Kingdom was present in their midst in the person of Jesus (Matt. 12:28).

 

[Brother Bob]

Originally Posted by Brother Bob
What about the final Kingdom??? I do not know for sure how many you believe there are.

1. There is only one kingdom, but different aspects of it; for example, from the OT we learn about the kingdom in prophecy and so on. One Kingdom

Right and not the body is not a part of it, but in the resurrection the body will be a part of it. What I said all along. Its I believe it will be forever.

Quote:
Do you believe the Kingdom is "within" the Pharisees???

2. The Kingdom was present in their midst in the person of Jesus (Matt. 12:28).

Well, I see you are going to stick with a translation you found and not all the rest.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
They can't say, 'Here it is!' or 'There it is!' You see, the kingdom of God is within you."

King James Bible
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

American Standard Version
neither shall they say, Lo, here! or, There! for lo, the kingdom of God is within you.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Neither shall they say: Behold here, or behold there. For lo, the kingdom of God is within you

English Revised Version
neither shall they say, Lo, here! or, There! for lo, the kingdom of God is within you.

Tyndale New Testament
Neither shall men say, Lo here, lo there. For behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Weymouth New Testament
Nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' --for the Kingdom of God is within you."

Webster's Bible Translation
Neither will they say, Lo here! or lo there! for behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

World English Bible
neither will they say,'Look, here!' or,'Look, there!' for behold, the Kingdom of God is within you.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

I ask you a question, please definition what is "kingdom" means?

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[TCGreek]

Right and not the body is not a part of it, but in the resurrection the body will be a part of it. What I said all along. Its I believe it will be forever.

1. You will find no disagreement here.

Well, I see you are going to stick with a translation you found and not all the rest.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
They can't say, 'Here it is!' or 'There it is!' You see, the kingdom of God is within you."

King James Bible
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

American Standard Version
neither shall they say, Lo, here! or, There! for lo, the kingdom of God is within you.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Neither shall they say: Behold here, or behold there. For lo, the kingdom of God is within you

English Revised Version
neither shall they say, Lo, here! or, There! for lo, the kingdom of God is within you.

Tyndale New Testament
Neither shall men say, Lo here, lo there. For behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Weymouth New Testament
Nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' --for the Kingdom of God is within you."

Webster's Bible Translation
Neither will they say, Lo here! or lo there! for behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

World English Bible
neither will they say,'Look, here!' or,'Look, there!' for behold, the Kingdom of God is within you.

2. A translation reflected in the following: NASB, TNIV, HCSB and ESV. I didn't invent it.

 

[Brother Bob]

2. A translation reflected in the following: NASB, TNIV, HCSB and ESV. I didn't invent it.

How was your day. I pray you had a good service today.

BBob,

 

[Isaiah40:28]

I use the NIV and it has a foonote for "within" in Luke 17:21 that says, or "among". And the study notes suggest two options for meaning:
1) "within you"--kingdom is present as an inward reality, hidden in people's hearts
2) "among you"--points to the presence of the kingdom among them in the person of Jesus.

On a personal note, I'm not a dispensationalist and currently lean to the amil position.

 

[Brother Bob]

I use the NIV and it has a foonote for "within" in Luke 17:21 that says, or "among". And the study notes suggest two options for meaning:
1) "within you"--kingdom is present as an inward reality, hidden in people's hearts
2) "among you"--points to the presence of the kingdom among them in the person of Jesus.

I take it as Jesus is the "King" of that Kingdom within you.
There are several other scriptures that will put the Kingdom already with the believers.

BBob,

 

[Isaiah40:28]

I take it as Jesus is the "King" of that Kingdom within you.
There are several other scriptures that will put the Kingdom already with the believers.

BBob,

And I haven't really thought about this too much so I'm not in a good position to enter the debate. I can only read and quote my Bible's notes.

 

[Brother Bob]

Originally Posted by Brother Bob
I take it as Jesus is the "King" of that Kingdom within you.
There are several other scriptures that will put the Kingdom already with the believers.

BBob,
And I haven't really thought about this too much so I'm not in a good position to enter the debate. I can only read and quote my Bible's notes.

Nothing wrong with what you said. If Jesus is the King of the Kingdom within you, then He is a part of that Kingdom also. So, among you would not exclude within you either. In that case, it was among them and within the believers that were with Him.

1Cr 12:12¶For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also [is] Christ.


BBob,

 

[Isaiah40:28]

Bob,
completely derailing the thread for a minute:
How do you post a reply?
Sometimes I find the formatting of your posts confusing.

The post above looks like you wrote what I actually wrote.
How did you do that?

 

[TCGreek]

How was your day. I pray you had a good service today.

BBob,

Thanks for asking. I had a good worship. How about you?

 

[EdSutton]

Well, I see you are going to stick with a translation you found and not all the rest.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
They can't say, 'Here it is!' or 'There it is!' You see, the kingdom of God is within you."

King James Bible
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

American Standard Version
neither shall they say, Lo, here! or, There! for lo, the kingdom of God is within you.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Neither shall they say: Behold here, or behold there. For lo, the kingdom of God is within you

English Revised Version
neither shall they say, Lo, here! or, There! for lo, the kingdom of God is within you.

Tyndale New Testament
Neither shall men say, Lo here, lo there. For behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Weymouth New Testament
Nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' --for the Kingdom of God is within you."

Webster's Bible Translation
Neither will they say, Lo here! or lo there! for behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

World English Bible
neither will they say,'Look, here!' or,'Look, there!' for behold, the Kingdom of God is within you.

2. A translation reflected in the following: NASB, TNIV, HCSB and ESV. I didn't invent it.

By this, I presume TCGreek means "among", or "in the midst".

Hey. a game of "Dueling Bible Versions"!! Haven't been in one of those for awhile! Can I play along, too? I'll do the 'short' version. Inside, within, in the midst of, or among? Lk. 17:21, huh?

21nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within[a] you."
Footnotes:

1. Luke 17:21 Or among (NIV)

21 nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is in your midst." [a]

Footnotes:

1. Luke 17:21 Or is within you (TNIV)

21 nor shall they say, Lo here, or, Lo there; for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you. (DARBY)


21 nor shall they say, Lo, here; or lo, there; for lo, the reign of God is within you.' (YLT)


21 People will not say, 'Look, here it is!' or, 'There it is!' because God's kingdom is within[a] you."
Footnotes:

1. Luke 17:21 within Or "among." (NCV)

21There is no use saying, `Look! Here it is' or `Look! There it is.' God's kingdom is here with you." [a]
Footnotes:

1. Luke 17:21 here with you: Or " in your hearts." (CEV)

21nor(A) will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or 'There!' for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you."[a]
Footnotes:

1. Luke 17:21 Or within you, or within your grasp (ESV)

21 You won’t be able to say, ‘Here it is!’ or ‘It’s over there!’ For the Kingdom of God is already among you.[a]”
Footnotes:

1. Luke 17:21 Or is within you, or is in your grasp. (NLT)

21Nor will people say, Look! Here [it is]! or, See, [it is] there! For behold, the kingdom of God is within you [in your hearts] and among you [surrounding you]. (AMP)

Nor when someone says, 'Look here!' or, 'There it is!' And why? Because God's kingdom is already among you." (MSG)

21nor will (A)they say, 'Look, here it is!' or, 'There it is!' For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst." (NASB)

21nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within[a] you."
Footnotes:

1. Luke 17:21 Or among (NIV)

Uh, Y'all think this is, or might be a verse we all should not be too dogmatic on, just maybe, as to how it should read? How does it read in the Greek language??? Says "εντος υμων". Hmmm!

If I remember my smattering of Greek from Bible College, "within", "inside", or "in the midst" are all among the permissible translations of this phrase, depending on the context. So, I'll say it should properly be rendered as ...! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Church time, guys. Gotta' run!

Ed

 

[npetreley]

When it is ajar.

 

[Brother Bob]

Bob,
completely derailing the thread for a minute:
How do you post a reply?
Sometimes I find the formatting of your posts confusing.

The post above looks like you wrote what I actually wrote.
How did you do that?

1. You hit the reply icon at the bottom right, which you do.
2. A box will come up and at the top of the box there is icons A B I U A, box, box box.
3 Click the last box on the right top and you will get quote quote.

4. copy what you want to paste, like all I said, and put your cursor in the middle of the two quotes signs and paste.
5. Then go below the last quote and type your message.
6. Try it, its quick.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst

Your argument don't hold water. If "in your midst" was the proper use instead of within you, then the words: The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: (would not be true), for if it was in the midst, you could see it, but its within you, so it comes not by seeing.


Luk 17:20¶And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

Luk 17:21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. (so, it comes not by observation), what say you?????

 

[Brother Bob]

Originally Posted by Brother Bob
How was your day. I pray you had a good service today.

BBob,

Thanks for asking. I had a good worship. How about you?

As long as I am above ground, its a good day........... Thank you,

BBob,

 

[EdSutton]

Your argument don't hold water. If "in your midst" was the proper use instead of within you, then the words: The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: (would not be true), for if it was in the midst, you could see it, but its within you, so it comes not by seeing.


Luk 17:20¶And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

Luk 17:21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. (so, it comes not by observation), what say you?????

What do you possibly mean with "Your argument don't hold water.", in response to a quote of how a particular version rendered a particular verse?

My only "argument" is that maybe we should not be dogmatic on how the verse is rendered.

Should you disagree with the rendering, here found in the NASB (since that is the version you are citing, and erroneously attributing as something I said), as opposed to attempting to 'invalidate' this reading, by reading your own theology into the verse, I suggest you should take it up with the Lockman Foundation, the 'owners' and translators of the NASB.

They are the ones who did this translation; I just repeated it.

Why are you wanting to "shoot the messenger", here?

Ed

 

[Brother Bob]

Should you disagree with the rendering, here found in teh NASB, as opposed to attempting to 'invalidate' this reading, by reading your theology into the verse, I suggest you should take it up with the Lockman Foundation, the 'owners' and translators of the NASB.

They are the ones who did this translation; I just reported it. Why are you wanting to "shoot the messenger", here?

Ed

You are right Ed; I really meant that for TC; Him and I have been discussing this for several posts. Sorry,

BBob,