Brother Bob
New Member
Embodiment can be misinterpted so many ways. Your use of that word, are you saying Jesus was speaking of Himself, when He said the Kingdom is among or within you????Rippon said:
BBob,
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Why is all Israel not Israel???
- Thread starter Brother Bob
- Start date
BBob,
Isaiah40:28
New Member
Okay, is it also possible that they could not spiritually see Jesus' kingdom manifest as Himself? And that the rest of the passage goes on to say that the kingdom will be revealed once again in His person at His second coming in all its majesty and glory?Brother Bob said:
Brother Bob
New Member
Isaiah40:28 said:
I don't think so Isaiah myself, you may be right but to me they were asking to see the Kingdom and Jesus said it comes not by observation, (you can't see it with your natural eyes).
BBob,
Isaiah; do you believe the Kingdom is Jesus that was among them???
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Isaiah40:28
New Member
I'm not sure, Bob what the phrase, "not come with your careful observation" means. Does it simply mean, you can't see it "with your natural eyes"? I tend to think not. I just checked an online commentary (IVP from Biblegateway)and something else that was suggested in addition to "legal observation" is this:Brother Bob said:
When I read this passage here, that's what seems to be a natural reading.Bob said:
Matthew 3:2-3 seems to reflect this view as well.
Am I dogmatic that this is what it means? no.
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Brother Bob
New Member
No, you are being honest and that is what I like. I have no problem with Jesus being the Kingdom, except the observation part.Isaiah40:28 said:
I hope we all can end up believing the Kingdom is Jesus.
BBob,
Isaiah40:28
New Member
And I have two things going for me:Brother Bob said:
1) I haven't preached anything for 35 years. LOL. So I have no track record to uphold.
2) Commentators seem to leave room for several different interpretations of the phrase "careful observation".
Brother Bob
New Member
Well is Jesus the Kingdom that comes not by observation???TCGreek said:
And if Jesus is your King, it has a lot to do with Luke 17:21. Kinda hard to be a King and not have a Kingdom. King of what???
Brother Bob said:
1. The Phrisees' idea of a kingdom was one riding on a white horse for battle against the enemies and then establishing his kingdom--that's the observation Jesus is dismissing.
2. If this question is based on Luke 17:21, then it is irrelevant.
3. What is the point of this question?
4. I am sorry that you are missing what Jesus is really saying---it seems like you are looking for an institution like those Pharisees Jesus was addressing.
DeafPosttrib
New Member
To my understand.
Many Jews and Pharisees were expecting to see their own King in power and glory, wear gold crown, fancy robe, with rod, ride on horse. They expect their important top ranked person to appear the world with glory and power to overthrown Roman Empire, and establish Judasism and religion political in Jerusalem to be the world's capitol.
When Jesus came to earth. He was not an important person, he was not a rich. He was very poor and humble. I am sure that he wore cheap robe or dress. Hard for Pharisees and Jews to believe that Jesus is the true Kinbg of Israel, because they were not able to reconginize Jesus is the son of God and truly King, because he was poor and dress in cheap clothing. Also, Jesus have no role or job on earth. He was just as servant.
Pharisees and Jews demanded their own King come in glory and power to overthrown Roman Empire, so, they expecting to see Kingdom appear earth in power. They have the wrong idea about Kingdom. Kinbgdom was not like as 'fanasty dream'.
Jesus told them, kingdom was not come with observation, it come within them. I believe he means that he is already present with them, they didn't realize that the King is already right there within few feet away from them. Jesus is the King. That why, they failed for recognize(notice) Jesus is the King. Actual, they rejected Christ as truly Messiah, King, and Son of God.
Premill believes kingdom was postoned (delay) till millennial, because Jews rejected Christ as King.
But, the kingdom was already brought by Jesus Christ.
In Matthew 4:17 tellsus, when after Jesus was baptized, and fasted for 40 days. He began to preach and he said, "Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is AT HAND." My understand what He means. He commands them to repent sins, for the kingdom of heaven is now at present.
Clear, Christ already bring kingdom to Israel. But most Jews and Pharisees were blind and reject him.
Does, Christ postponed the kingdom wait till millennial, because they reject him?
No. He already bring it to Israel. And the kingdom was start with in Jerusalem. When the Holy Spirit poured upon disciples on Pentacost Day of Acts chapter 2. They spread the kingdom over the world from Jerusalem.
We already have kingdom within us.
Kingdom is all about Jesus Christ and gospel. Kingdom is not about political or government as fansasty dream.
Kingdom is spiritual right now.
When Jesus comes again, kingdom shall become visible will be on new earth, and we shall reign with Christ forever and ever.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
Many Jews and Pharisees were expecting to see their own King in power and glory, wear gold crown, fancy robe, with rod, ride on horse. They expect their important top ranked person to appear the world with glory and power to overthrown Roman Empire, and establish Judasism and religion political in Jerusalem to be the world's capitol.
When Jesus came to earth. He was not an important person, he was not a rich. He was very poor and humble. I am sure that he wore cheap robe or dress. Hard for Pharisees and Jews to believe that Jesus is the true Kinbg of Israel, because they were not able to reconginize Jesus is the son of God and truly King, because he was poor and dress in cheap clothing. Also, Jesus have no role or job on earth. He was just as servant.
Pharisees and Jews demanded their own King come in glory and power to overthrown Roman Empire, so, they expecting to see Kingdom appear earth in power. They have the wrong idea about Kingdom. Kinbgdom was not like as 'fanasty dream'.
Jesus told them, kingdom was not come with observation, it come within them. I believe he means that he is already present with them, they didn't realize that the King is already right there within few feet away from them. Jesus is the King. That why, they failed for recognize(notice) Jesus is the King. Actual, they rejected Christ as truly Messiah, King, and Son of God.
Premill believes kingdom was postoned (delay) till millennial, because Jews rejected Christ as King.
But, the kingdom was already brought by Jesus Christ.
In Matthew 4:17 tellsus, when after Jesus was baptized, and fasted for 40 days. He began to preach and he said, "Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is AT HAND." My understand what He means. He commands them to repent sins, for the kingdom of heaven is now at present.
Clear, Christ already bring kingdom to Israel. But most Jews and Pharisees were blind and reject him.
Does, Christ postponed the kingdom wait till millennial, because they reject him?
No. He already bring it to Israel. And the kingdom was start with in Jerusalem. When the Holy Spirit poured upon disciples on Pentacost Day of Acts chapter 2. They spread the kingdom over the world from Jerusalem.
We already have kingdom within us.
Kingdom is all about Jesus Christ and gospel. Kingdom is not about political or government as fansasty dream.
Kingdom is spiritual right now.
When Jesus comes again, kingdom shall become visible will be on new earth, and we shall reign with Christ forever and ever.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
Brother Bob
New Member
DeafPosttrib said:
Thanks Deafposttrib;
Sure is good to have some support on here. I feel like I am swiming in swift waters here.
BBob,
Brother Bob
New Member
TCGreek said:
The question was simple, is Jesus the Kingdom??
How many believe that Jesus is the Kingdom?? Instead of believing the Kingdom is within you?
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Brother Bob
New Member
Not me, I am trying to tell you that I believe in a Spiritual Kingdom, one where we can worship God in Spirit and in Truth. You, and others seem to deny it.TCGreek said:
BBob,
Brother Bob said:
BBob, good day,
1. I don't do well with the Either/Or fallacy--it is either this or that.
2. Here's a third position according to Rippon, which I hold to and makes sense of several statements and actions of Jesus--Jesus was the embodiment of the kingdom---kingdom refers to the rule of God in Christ earthly ministry at the time.
3. How then was Jesus able to say that because He cast out demons by the Spirit, that meant the kingdom had come (Matt 12:28, a text I see you have not dealt with properly)? It must be because the kingdom concept was present in what He was doing.
4. Based on Luke 17:21 I cannot say that the kingdom is within me---Jesus was addressing some of His critics the Pharisees and said the kingdom was among them.
Brother Bob
New Member
Most translations says "within" you.TCGreek said:
So, the Kingdom is the "rule of God in the ministry of Christ"??? Do you honestly think that makes sense TC; So, everywhere the "rule of God in the ministry of Christ is," is the Kingdom, is that what you are saying??
You believe Christ is a King but you will not say, what He is King of, amazing!
BBob,
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Brother Bob
New Member
Brother Bob
New Member
Just trying to get the Kingdom where it is, so you can see it.TCGreek said: