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Why James White Is Sick of The Calvinist Club

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Yeshua1

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JonC said:
So God allowed or permitted man to receive the "sin nature" that Adam discovered in himself? Where did it come from? Did Adam have it before he sinned?
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Adam was created by God with the potential to sin, but since the fall, NONE of us save for Jesus had any "free will" remaining...
 
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Yeshua1

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The Archangel said:
The problem is that Eve is tempted, and it’s not by something within herself. Adam, on the other hand, eats the fruit Eve gives him, and in that is some type of rebellious sin. So you’d have to argue Adam is created in some type of imperfection where he desires equality with God, which the text clearly does not support.

The Archangel


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God created Adam in a state of being perfect in regards to always obeying the Lord, His nature was bent to please God, but the Fall bent that away to pleasing himself!
 
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Yeshua1

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JonC said:
I would argue that Adam, being made in God's image, sought a type of equality with God as something to grasp. I would argue that Adam was tempted by his desires and transgressed God's command. Sin and death entered the world and men were enslaved, condemned and corrupt. And I would argue that as men sought their will God gave them over to unnatural desires.

Jesus has a human nature to include natural desires of the flesh, yet He did not sin. No passage presents Jesus as being less than man in His humanity. No passage describes Adam as having anything but a human nature.
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Jesus is the God/Man, perfect God and Human, and would be VERY hard pressed to compare Him to any of us. period!
 
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Yeshua1

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JonC said:
Scripture states that Eve saw that the fruit was "good for food", a "delight to the eyes", and desirable to make one wise. This certainly appeals to something within. Scripture does not present Adam or Eve as getting a new "sinful nature".
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Their sinless state became the sinful one, as they spiritual died immediately, and physical death more gradually came upon them!
 
thatbrian

thatbrian

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The Archangel said:
So you’d have to argue Adam is created in some type of imperfection where he desires equality with God, which the text clearly does not support.
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He was obviously created with the capacity, and what are to do with that desire of his? How do we explain a perfect being having an evil desire? One way is: Adam was "good", not perfect. I'm not not arguing that, but it's a possibility.
 
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Yeshua1

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Reynolds said:
Again, word games. Think of God as an earthly king for a moment. He tells his servants, plant anything you like in your fields. A servant then freely chooses to plant corn. Another freely chooses to plant beans. God remained in control, yet gave His servants a free choice.
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But then the fall hits, and everyone now only has a desire to plant weeds!
 
JonC

JonC

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The Archangel said:
Again, you’re ignoring the text. What you’ve quoted here is after the temptation. She sins after an external temptation. She uses her intellect to adjudicate the fruit, ignoring the law God had given.

The Archangel


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All sin is like this. That is my point. The fruit appealed to Adam and Eve (it was good for food, pleasing to the eye and desirable to make one wise). And for Eve it was before "the Fall" (before Adam sinned). For both, the temptation appealed to the desire of the flesh.
 
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Yeshua1

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Earth Wind and Fire said:
:ThumbsdownWhat:(
You are a pastor representing Christ, correct?!? How can you make these charges? What Christian would believe that the nature of God is evil? Indeed, how could He be super good yet ...

yea that would be a Presbyterian
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Nope not Presbyterians, as they would affirm either Infra/Supra, but not Hyper Cal!
 
JonC

JonC

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Yeshua1 said:
Jesus is the God/Man, perfect God and Human, and would be VERY hard pressed to compare Him to any of us. period!
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But this is exactly what John, Paul, and the author of Hebrews does. Jesus took on the exact same type of nature we have - a human nature, "sinful" or "corruptable flesh".

Your argument is with those guys (Jesus and the Apostles), not with me. But I suspect claiming the only reason Christ remained obedient is that he didn't share our nature may earn you a blasphemy sticker....or at least a frowney face.
 
delizzle

delizzle

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Yeshua1 said:
I am a sinner by birth and then by choice!
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Now correct me if I you've heard different. I was under the impression that sin nature is nothing more than our desire to sin. But not a sin in itself. "We are not sinners because we sin. We sin because we are sinners." If you are suggesting that our mere existence is somehow a front against God, (I am not saying you believe this) then it is hard justifying the rejection of infant baptism.

On the other hand, if sin nature does not equal sin and is merely a natural inclination towards sin, babies are born sinless until they are old enough to wilfully and knowingly sin. Meaning that infant baptism is unneccessary and unborn babies go to heaven. At that point is Where they are in the age of accountability and could face damnation.
 
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