Why Jesus Said "I Never Knew You"?

[Bob Hope]

T



That's weak man. That's not what James was saying at all. There are no thoughts that will save you. It's all action based on obedience to Christ.

Christ said only those that DO His will


For whosoever shall do the will of God, thesame is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

Christ doesn't use the term faith. He uses word like let your light shine and do His will. Even in Revelation He says repent and DO the first works...

 

[Revmitchell]

Mat_6:30 But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is alive and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?
Mat_8:10 When Jesus heard this, he marveled and said to those who followed him, "Truly, I tell you, with no one in Israel have I found such faith.
Mat_8:26 And he said to them, "Why are you afraid, O you of little faith?" Then he rose and rebuked the winds and the sea, and there was a great calm.
Mat_9:2 And behold, some people brought to him a paralytic, lying on a bed. And when Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Take heart, my son; your sins are forgiven."
Mat_9:22 Jesus turned, and seeing her he said, "Take heart, daughter; your faith has made you well." And instantly the woman was made well.
Mat_9:29 Then he touched their eyes, saying, "According to your faith be it done to you."
Mat_14:31 Jesus immediately reached out his hand and took hold of him, saying to him, "O you of little faith, why did you doubt?"
Mat_15:28 Then Jesus answered her, "O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire." And her daughter was healed instantly.
Mat_16:8 But Jesus, aware of this, said, "O you of little faith, why are you discussing among yourselves the fact that you have no bread?
Mat_17:20 He said to them, "Because of your little faith. For truly, I say to you, if you have faith like a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you."
Mat_21:21 And Jesus answered them, "Truly, I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what has been done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, 'Be taken up and thrown into the sea,' it will happen.
Mat_21:22 And whatever you ask in prayer, you will receive, if you have faith."
Mar_2:5 And when Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Son, your sins are forgiven."
Mar_4:40 He said to them, "Why are you so afraid? Have you still no faith?"
Mar_5:34 And he said to her, "Daughter, your faith has made you well; go in peace, and be healed of your disease."
Mar_10:52 And Jesus said to him, "Go your way; your faith has made you well." And immediately he recovered his sight and followed him on the way.
Mar_11:22 And Jesus answered them, "Have faith in God.
Luk_5:20 And when he saw their faith, he said, "Man, your sins are forgiven you."
Luk_7:9 When Jesus heard these things, he marveled at him, and turning to the crowd that followed him, said, "I tell you, not even in Israel have I found such faith."
Luk_7:50 And he said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."
Luk_8:25 He said to them, "Where is your faith?" And they were afraid, and they marveled, saying to one another, "Who then is this, that he commands even winds and water, and they obey him?"
Luk_8:48 And he said to her, "Daughter, your faith has made you well; go in peace."
Luk_12:28 But if God so clothes the grass, which is alive in the field today, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, how much more will he clothe you, O you of little faith!
Luk_17:5 The apostles said to the Lord, "Increase our faith!"
Luk_17:6 And the Lord said, "If you had faith like a grain of mustard seed, you could say to this mulberry tree, 'Be uprooted and planted in the sea,' and it would obey you.
Luk_17:19 And he said to him, "Rise and go your way; your faith has made you well."
Luk_18:8 I tell you, he will give justice to them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?"
Luk_18:42 And Jesus said to him, "Recover your sight; your faith has made you well."
Luk_22:32 but I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned again, strengthen your brothers."

 

[Bob Hope]

Mat_6:30 But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is alive and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?
Mat_8:10 When Jesus heard this, he marveled and said to those who followed him, "Truly, I tell you, with no one in Israel have I found such faith.
Mat_8:26 And he said to them, "Why are you afraid, O you of little faith?" Then he rose and rebuked the winds and the sea, and there was a great calm.
Mat_9:2 And behold, some people brought to him a paralytic, lying on a bed. And when Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Take heart, my son; your sins are forgiven."
Mat_9:22 Jesus turned, and seeing her he said, "Take heart, daughter; your faith has made you well." And instantly the woman was made well.
Mat_9:29 Then he touched their eyes, saying, "According to your faith be it done to you."
Mat_14:31 Jesus immediately reached out his hand and took hold of him, saying to him, "O you of little faith, why did you doubt?"
Mat_15:28 Then Jesus answered her, "O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire." And her daughter was healed instantly.
Mat_16:8 But Jesus, aware of this, said, "O you of little faith, why are you discussing among yourselves the fact that you have no bread?
Mat_17:20 He said to them, "Because of your little faith. For truly, I say to you, if you have faith like a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you."
Mat_21:21 And Jesus answered them, "Truly, I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what has been done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, 'Be taken up and thrown into the sea,' it will happen.
Mat_21:22 And whatever you ask in prayer, you will receive, if you have faith."
Mar_2:5 And when Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Son, your sins are forgiven."
Mar_4:40 He said to them, "Why are you so afraid? Have you still no faith?"
Mar_5:34 And he said to her, "Daughter, your faith has made you well; go in peace, and be healed of your disease."
Mar_10:52 And Jesus said to him, "Go your way; your faith has made you well." And immediately he recovered his sight and followed him on the way.
Mar_11:22 And Jesus answered them, "Have faith in God.
Luk_5:20 And when he saw their faith, he said, "Man, your sins are forgiven you."
Luk_7:9 When Jesus heard these things, he marveled at him, and turning to the crowd that followed him, said, "I tell you, not even in Israel have I found such faith."
Luk_7:50 And he said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."
Luk_8:25 He said to them, "Where is your faith?" And they were afraid, and they marveled, saying to one another, "Who then is this, that he commands even winds and water, and they obey him?"
Luk_8:48 And he said to her, "Daughter, your faith has made you well; go in peace."
Luk_12:28 But if God so clothes the grass, which is alive in the field today, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, how much more will he clothe you, O you of little faith!
Luk_17:5 The apostles said to the Lord, "Increase our faith!"
Luk_17:6 And the Lord said, "If you had faith like a grain of mustard seed, you could say to this mulberry tree, 'Be uprooted and planted in the sea,' and it would obey you.
Luk_17:19 And he said to him, "Rise and go your way; your faith has made you well."
Luk_18:8 I tell you, he will give justice to them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?"
Luk_18:42 And Jesus said to him, "Recover your sight; your faith has made you well."
Luk_22:32 but I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned again, strengthen your brothers."

You've done a great job of showing that those who have a little faith will NOT be saved.



Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.


Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?


Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?


Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.


Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?


For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

 

[Bob Hope]

You've done a great job of showing that those who have a little faith will NOT be saved.



Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.


Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?


Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?


Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.


Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?


For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.


And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.



Notice it never says you are judged by your faith but by your WORKS!

 

[Bob Hope]

And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[Bob Hope]

They answered and said unto him, Abrahamis our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the worksof Abraham.

 

[utilyan]

I read Peter's message differently from how you were paraphrasing it about it would have been better to be an unbeliever and thus meaning a believer thinks it is okay to sin.

I believe Peter was inferring that whatever the sinful state the saved believer was in before he got saved, after being overcome by sowing to the flesh, he will find himself in a far worse sinful state; hence reaping corruption, and thus incurring the wages of sin which is a physical death.

He would still be saved, but left behind where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth to be received later on as a vessel unto dishonor in His House after the great tribulation when God will wipe the tears from their eyes over the loss of their first inheritance.

The prodigal son will not get that first inheritance since he had given it up for wild living, but he is still son, and thus received as a vessel unto dishonor in His House.

But the doors to the Marriage Supper are still open, and so the call is given out to every saved believer and former believers to look to Jesus for help to discern by the KJV, good and evil and lean on Him to lay aside every weight & sin in running that race by faith in Jesus Christ to finish it.

He clearly says the later state is worst then the first.
"the last state has become worse for them than the first."

Common sense is being saved with vast amount of finger wagging is better then damned to hell.


He said : "For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness,"

Believe me Jesus Christ is an ingredient. So how someone better off not knowing Jesus?



Hebrews 10
26For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. 28Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know Him who said, “VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY.” And again, “THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE.” 31It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Key points here he starts with WE (believers/saved folk) who were SANCTIFIED.
How much severer punishment? Well a non-believer who hasn't been sanctified gets Hell.
So this guy gets something worst.

Galatians he is talking to a room full of "saved" folk.
Galatians 3
. 26For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.



Galatians 5
19Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Here he warns BELIEVERS/SAVED FOLK, they will NOT inherit the kingdom of God.
He is talking to those who are "sons of God" and who have "Put on Christ"

I can go on and on.....cause there are HUNDREDS of verses against OSAS.

Galatians 5
4You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

Fall from grace.......is a phrase that shouldn't even exist.

Put a ladder up and lay on the ground next to the ladder while your there on the floor Try falling from the ladder. If your already at the bottom you can't fall. This is just common sense.
Same goes with severed from Christ.

Next I think ill bring up Judas. BETRAYAL and TRAITOR. The whole point of those words is we are talking about someone who WAS actually on the same team. If he was never on the team then he is a enemy spy, infiltrator, but he wouldn't qualify as a traitor and didn't betray at all.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I can go on and on.....cause there are HUNDREDS of verses against OSAS.

Quite right. OSAS is unbiblical. The Reformers spoke of the 'Perseverance of the Saints' which is quite different.

But tell me; why did the Lord Jesus say to these people, "I never knew you!"? Why not, "I used to know you but now I've forgotten you."?
That, I think is the question posed by the O.P.

 

[Hark]

That's weak man. That's not what James was saying at all.

Read James 2nd chapter in context to see what the church was actually doing to the poor.

There are no thoughts that will save you. It's all action based on obedience to Christ.

Salvation is without works. It is believing in Him that justifies us.

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Colossians 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. 21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: 23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

It is trusting Him as our Good Shepherd in helping us to abide in Him and to follow Him is what discipleship is all about. Discipleship is running that race as a saved believer in maintaining good works that is only profitable unto men.

Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Both Titus 3:8 & Ephesians 2:10 puts works apart from salvation, but shows its importance "after" salvation since we are reconciled to God.

 

[Hark]

He clearly says the later state is worst then the first.
"the last state has become worse for them than the first."

Common sense is being saved with vast amount of finger wagging is better then damned to hell.

He said : "For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness,"

Believe me Jesus Christ is an ingredient. So how someone better off not knowing Jesus?

Again, Paul is pointing out the consequence for that saved believer in being overcome with sin in this life; not the next.

2 Peter 3:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

A dog can't return to his vomit in hell. Paul is addressing a carnal believer in how he was before he had gotten saved to the latter end when overcome in this life.

He is still saved as that would be akin to just putting wood, stubble, and hay on that foundation as 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 testifies in verse 15.

He would be the prodigal son that gave up the first inheritance of being that vessel unto honor in His House for wild living into becoming a vessel unto dishonor in His House for not looking to Him for help to depart from iniquity, but he is still son.

Hebrews 10
26For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. 28Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know Him who said, “VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY.” And again, “THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE.” 31It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Key points here he starts with WE (believers/saved folk) who were SANCTIFIED.
How much severer punishment? Well a non-believer who hasn't been sanctified gets Hell.
So this guy gets something worst.

Note how “THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE.” is testifying to that they are still His people.

Also FYI in context, Hebrews 10th chapter's sinning willfully part is about after having the knowledge that there is no more sacrifice for sins. The sin is believing and practicing that believers need another continual sacrifice for sins, thus treating the Son's blood of the New Covenant on par with the blood of goats and bulls that bears repeating.

So basically, those who partake of the Mass and communion thinking they are actually receiving that same one time sacrifice for sins "again" is going to get it, unless they repent, but they are still His people.

Galatians he is talking to a room full of "saved" folk.
Galatians 3
. 26For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

Galatians 5
19Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Here he warns BELIEVERS/SAVED FOLK, they will NOT inherit the kingdom of God.
He is talking to those who are "sons of God" and who have "Put on Christ"

I can go on and on.....cause there are HUNDREDS of verses against OSAS.

Galatians 5
4You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

Fall from grace.......is a phrase that shouldn't even exist.

Put a ladder up and lay on the ground next to the ladder while your there on the floor Try falling from the ladder. If your already at the bottom you can't fall. This is just common sense.
Same goes with severed from Christ.

The thing is; Paul was warning Galatians that they will not inherit the kingdom of God as vessels unto honor in His House, and be left behind as castaway and thus becoming vessel unto dishonors, BUT they are still in His House. Paul explains this better below.

2 Timothy 2: 18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

So what is a vessel unto dishonor that is in His House? A saved believer having His seal that did not depart from iniquity, and that includes former believers that have erred from the truth and had their faith overthrown.

The call to depart from iniquity still goes to former believers to go before that throne of grace for help in discernment and wisdom to believe again.

Next I think ill bring up Judas. BETRAYAL and TRAITOR. The whole point of those words is we are talking about someone who WAS actually on the same team. If he was never on the team then he is a enemy spy, infiltrator, but he wouldn't qualify as a traitor and didn't betray at all.

The problem with Judas Isacriot was that he had never believed in the first place.

John 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. 65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. 66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. 67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? 68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. 69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God. 70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? 71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

It was because of what Simon Peter had said in speaking for the remaining disciples that Jesus pointed out that one of them did not believe in Him and would betray him.

Also; The rest of the disciples were not officially saved until Pentecost when Jesus was no longer present with them but at the right hand of God the Father as a condition for receiving the promise from the Father of the permanent indwelling Holy Ghost as discussed in John 14th chapter.

 

[Bob Hope]

Not for our salvation, but for living as His disciple to be received by His grace & by His help to the Marriage Supper held in His honor,



James was addressing a church that was disrespecting the poor by verbalizing faith in God's Providence to the poor after service in getting out of helping the poor by meeting their immediate needs from the bounty collected at church service.

It is that kind of faith that James was addressing and not saving faith in Jesus Christ. James wanted that church to lead by example because in the eyes of the poor, the church's actions voided the church's claim to having faith in God's Providence towards the church's needs for tomorrow when the church is unwilling to despense to meet the poor immediate needs today. In the eyes of the poor, the church's faith in God's Providence was dead, and so the church's faith will not "profit" the poor nor "save" the poor when the church is not leading by example that God will provide for the church.

Some believers can have works and still have not repented from iniquity that voids faith in Him, and so that quote is not a solid guide.

The best guide is to go before that throne of grace for help in getting ready for the Bridegroom before He comes, and He will lead believers to discern good and evil out of the KJV to help them lay aside every weight & sin in running that race by faith in Jesus Christ to finish.

Did you not read the verses I posted on works? Salvation is only by works.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.



No one is judged according to their faith.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

No one is judged according to their faith.

The evidence of faith is works. Look at a the 'heroes of faith' in Hebrews 11. Abel, Noah, Abraham; They were all people who did something, by faith..

 

[Bob Hope]

The evidence of faith is works. Look at a the 'heroes of faith' in Hebrews 11. Abel, Noah, Abraham; They were all people who did something, by faith..

I'll give you that true faith will produce a desire to be fruitful.

 

[vooks]

I am not a Calvinist, but scripture testifies to eternal security;

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.



Only because it is hidden as scripture will testify to this as well.

Matthew 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

The three measures are:

Christ the firstfruits; the pre trib raptured saints; O.T. saints & N.T. abiding saints at the Marriage Supper

They that be Christ's at His coming; those left behind and new saints;

The milleniel reign's generation.

Then the end comes which these three measures makes up the whole of the kingdom of heaven before the Son gives the kingdom back to the Father.

The problem with Matthew 24th chapter and 2 Thessalonians 2nd chapter is that readers are not seeing two events of the gathering and His coming being mentioned. They only see one event, thus it is hidden because it is not being discerned with Him.

Nobody can take us away from Jesus but He does not hold us there against our will. That's why there is such a thing as apostasy.

Pre-trib is not 'hidden', it is non-existent and based on wild escapist assumptions. All animals are averse to pain and this is why it has gained currency, but it is a total fabrication.

 

[Hark]

Did you not read the verses I posted on works? Salvation is only by works.

Sorry. I did not check the later replies to me. I will need to go back over the thread. Thanks for pointing that out.

But incidentally, did you see the scripture I had posted that works is apart from saving faith in Jesus Christ?

Then we need to address this reference of your below for right now on how and why it does not apply.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

No one is judged according to their faith.

Those whose name was not written in the book of life are judged by their works.

You have to consider the verses that I have shared for the times we are in now as being before the Marriage Supper is how we are written in the book of life.

 

[Hark]

Christ said only those that DO His will

For whosoever shall do the will of God, thesame is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

Christ doesn't use the term faith.

He did not use the terms works either. So what is the will of God?

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

So what works that God wants us to do?

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Believe in Him that He is our Saviour and that by believing in Him we are saved AND believe in Him that He is our Good Shepherd and that by trusting Him, He will help us to follow Him as His disciple.

He uses word like let your light shine and do His will.

A lot of religious people are doing works as a way of having their light shine, but that is not the light Jesus was talking about.

It was about loving others as He enables us so that others may see the light of Christ in you, otherwise, your light will not outshine religious people at all for anyone to even want to hear the gospel on how we are saved.

Even in Revelation He says repent and DO the first works...

He said so by addressing that church as a part of the body of Christ. Read the whole thing regarding that church, and may you see that was God telling them to get ready before the Bridegroom comes.

 

[Hark]

Luk_22:32 but I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned again, strengthen your brothers."

Why the need for prayer unless someone can lose their faith?

 

[Bob Hope]

In

He did not use the terms works either. So what is the will of God?

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

So what works that God wants us to do?

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Believe in Him that He is our Saviour and that by believing in Him we are saved AND believe in Him that He is our Good Shepherd and that by trusting Him, He will help us to follow Him as His disciple.



A lot of religious people are doing works as a way of having their light shine, but that is not the light Jesus was talking about.

It was about loving others as He enables us so that others may see the light of Christ in you, otherwise, your light will not outshine religious people at all for anyone to even want to hear the gospel on how we are saved.



He said so by addressing that church as a part of the body of Christ. Read the whole thing regarding that church, and may you see that was God telling them to get ready before the Bridegroom comes.

I think your making it way more complicated than it needs to be. There are two types of people in the world. Those who are obedient and those who are disobedient. That's it. The obedient follow the commands of Christ. They are the mourners, the merciful, the meek, etc etc

 

[Hark]

You've done a great job of showing that those who have a little faith will NOT be saved.

Actually, Jesus was noting what little faith they had since they were not applying that faith in areas of their concern.

Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

A lot of religious people do good works and they are the ones that usually get praises from men and not God the Father.

So it is about seeing the light of Christ in us by our works, and they can't see that unless we declare our faith in Him as our Good Shepherd as to why and how we are doing good works which is by His power & love.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

One tried to use that reference as meaning that these believers thought they were justified by doing all of these works in His name as a way of saying that they were not saved, but that was not what Jesus was talking about either. You have to read Matthew 7:13-27 & Luke 13:24-30 in context with each other to see the message and warning given to saved believers about false prophets coming in to lead others astray.

He has led me to discern that He was talking about all of these "movement of the Spirit" where wayward believers seek to receive the Holy Ghost again after a sensational sign in the flesh, even tongues that comes with no interpretation which is not of Him at all. In these movements, many houses have fallen.

Matthew 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Proverbs 25:26 A righteous man falling down before the wicked is as a troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring. 27 It is not good to eat much honey: so for men to search their own glory is not glory. 28 He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.

1 Corinthians 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: ........

For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Note the term "reward" in the scriptural reference of your quote above.

If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

You bold the word "works, but fail to heed what Jesus is asking for us to do: and that is to believe in Him because of those works.

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Again, James was not talking about the saving faith in Jesus Christ. By one of the examples by referring to Abraham, we can see this by the event of his offering up his son as a sacrifice. Let every one know now what faith James was referring to as this was about God's Providence.

Genesis 22:7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering? 8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.......
13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son. 14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the Lord it shall be seen.

James being once of the Jews, knew what he was referring to the O.T. that was widely known by all Jews was to Abraham's faith in His Providence.

Thus James was rebuking the church verbalizing their faith in God's providence in getting out of helping the poor from the bounty collected after church service. James was not talking about any other kind of faith in regard to his rebuke to the church's actions towards the poor starting at the beginning of chapter 2.

 

[Hark]

And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Being Revelation as it is, the only One that can keep His works is Him.

Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.

How to strengthen the things that remain? Where does our strength comes from?

Hebrews 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

How can any work we do be perfect before God?

Psalm 138:8 The Lord will perfect that which concerneth me: thy mercy, O Lord, endureth for ever: forsake not the works of thine own hands.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: 7 Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace. 8 For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ. 9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; 10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ. 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Notice it never says you are judged by your faith but by your WORKS!

Again, those not written in the book of life are cast into the lake of fire. You have to testify as to how your name can be written in the book of life. It is not by works.

Romans 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

You tell me what Paul is saying above.